Update - TSBK - Episode 81 - Amanda Birch.png
Listen on iTunes
Listen on Spotify
listen on Google Podcasts
Listen on Stitcher

Charge an hourly or fixed rate?

It's a decision many bookkeepers, who are business owners, have pondered at one point or another.

Our guest, Amanda Birch, the President of Birch Accounting & Tax Services, was one of them until she figured out fixed pricing was the way to go.

For her, fixed pricing made sense because it is offered upfront so that clients would know exactly what they're paying for, whether it be bookkeeping or taxes, so they would not end up with a surprise bill at the end.

That decision has worked well.

Amanda's business continues to provide value while her customers have reaped the benefits.

During this interview, you'll also discover...

  • How to optimize bookkeeping in real time with online applications

  • How to provide cloud and desktop accounting solutions to your customers

  • How to use a secure encrypted portal for your customers' tax return information

To learn more about Birch Accounting & Tax Services, visit here

For Amanda's LinkedIn page, click here.

For her Facebook, discover here.

To get in touch with Amanda, email her at amanda@birchaccounting.ca.


EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

Michael Palmer: 01:01 Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. I'm your host, Michael Palmer, and today's show is going to be a fun one. Our guest is the mother of five kids and has been operating a bookkeeping practice for 12 years, including starting your business twice, once in British Columbia, 12 years ago. And once when she moved to Alberta five years ago, she owns Birch Accounting and Tax Services and her practice is almost 100% virtual. Amanda Birch, welcome to the podcast.

Amanda Birch: 01:33 Thanks a lot, Michael. I appreciate the opportunity to be here with you today.

MP: 01:37 Well, the privileges all of ours. And I do thank you for devoting your time during a very busy time of the year to actually give some of your wisdom experiences, your wins, your failures, all that good stuff to our audience. And I know they're there, had his tipped to you as well. So Amanda, first off, tell us why you were interested in becoming a bookkeeper in the first place.

AB: 02:07 Um, you know, I was kind of throwing into it. My husband and I met, he's a CPA and uh, we started at, we were starting our family and we realize that flexibility and working a nine to five job wasn't quite what we wanted it to be. So when my oldest was born 12 years ago, we decided that I would start bookkeeping and doing some basic tax, you know, to the offset cause his income. I had been doing bookkeeping since high was actually 13 years old. My mom is also a bookkeeper, so she, I mean she had me doing reconciliations at 13 I took my degree in business and started it the first year we had five clients and now we have significantly more than that.

MP: 02:59 Beautiful.

MP: 03:00 Now you started at a very young age and what, what have you seen through that, you know, 13 to now, what, what stands out for you in terms of the, the, the business landscape today is to where it was before?

AB: 03:25 Well, when we first started we didn't have QBO, we didn't have things like share files. Virtual bookkeeping I don't think was even on the landscape. I don't think people were thinking about it that way. And probably about, I would say about eight years. So you started seeing things like QBO become a major, major player. And when we decided to move to Alberta, I knew it was an easy, easy thing for me to do. I have things like facetime and Skype. Um, my clients, I would say, majority of them I've never met in person. They know my voice, they've seen a picture. But to actually meet in person has never been a detriment to the growth of our business.

MP: 04:07 That's fantastic.

AB: 04:08 Yeah.

MP: 04:09 You started your business twice, you mentioned a little bit of that not and virtual. Having the virtual aspect was a big part of what enabled you to do that seamlessly. What you know, what's that been like though, to move to a completely different part of the world? I mean part of Canada really part of the world, but uh, from British Columbia to Alberta.

AB: 04:35 I mean,we moved up big city. Uh, we lived in Surrey BC, so you, you know, you know, Metro Vancouver, we moved to what I classify small-town Alberta, which is, Duke is just south of Edmonton going from millions of people to 30,000. Cause, uh, it was a, it was a culture shock and definitely felt like a different part of the world. But, you know, having, having everything online, there was no question my ability to support my clients. Um, and when I said I was moving and they said, so what does that mean for us? I said, well, this is, this is what we have in place already. Um, and this is what I'm going to be adding, you know, to the platform. They were excited. They're like, you mean I don't have to see you anymore? And they were, and I said, well, you know, I'm gonna miss you. Um, but I had a full practice at that point. I was contemplating moving out into office space. And so when I moved here to the home-based business, because I didn't have to see anyone and I've pretty much doubled my, my client base since I've moved here. And again, clients I that live down the street, most of their stuff is still virtual as well. I stealing very rarely.

MP: 05:53 Wow. That's fantastic. I mean there's, you know, the, these are some of the gains that you can get when you are working virtually and not hit your bottom line. I'm sure.

AB: 06:06 Absolutely. I don't have to hire staff when I've got things in place like Receipt bank and hub dock, you know, those are extra people during tax season. In fall, I'll bring in extra help just to keep me on top of everything. You know, the kids go to daycare more often, but I'm not feeling overly stress. There's still some stress involved in the busy time of year and any bookkeeper or accountant will tell you that it is this crazy. Um, but I look at it and the rest of the year is a pretty slow go, uh, relaxing type of business. So definitely the pros and it's just pros and cons to both sides.

MP: 06:46 Yeah, no, absolutely. Now, just because it's virtual does not mean that it's easy. There's lots of roadblocks and pitfalls and all sorts of stuff. Just like any direction a business goes. What have you seen as some of the challenges that you've had to overcome having done this from a virtual standpoint?

AB: 07:07 You know what, it's technology. There's always going to be problems with technology. Servers go down, they become overloaded. Clients, you think things are 100% automated just because it's, you know, online don't realize that I do put in a lot of work behind the scenes to make it look easy and they're always surprised and I can give them answers at the drop of a hat, but there's a lot of work that gets us to that point. Um, you know, you, you'll see online, everyone's like, oh no, QBO is down. I can't run payroll and nobody knows what to do. There there is, there is no contingency in place, right? Payroll goes down. Suddenly you have to figure out how am I going to get payroll done? And at the end of the day, there aren't a lot of other options. When it used to be completely manual, you know, you do it through a QuickBooks desktop or simply accounting.

AB: 08:03 You would create your pay stub. You'd call the employee or send them an email and say, you know, you need to write checks for, you know, John Smith for $150. And that's what they would do. Now if you're on something like wage points or QBO payroll or there's a bunch of other vendors at that that do this product and they're down and you can't get it processed, you've a can't calculate a and B direct deposit doesn't happen. It's a problem. It's a problem. People want to get paid. You know, it's an amazing thing.

MP: 08:46 Absolutely.

AB: 08:47 People's houses depend on it.

MP: 08:49 Absolutely. Absolutely.

AB: 08:51 So, so a big part of it is, yeah, there's lots of benefits, but you're really putting in some cases your eggs all in one basket. When you're working in the cloud, the cloud goes down and it can happen quite easily cause it's, it's one pipe. Uh, so that's one of them.

MP: 09:13 What about the, you know, the perspective of, you mentioned a little bit of that, right? Like even the perception that your clients would have like, oh, this is all in the cloud now. It's easy. It's, it should be easier to, to do for you. That's a perception that might be pushing the value of what you do down. How do you counteract that?

AB: 09:28 Generally it comes down to when there is a problem and you start explaining why there's a problem. Right. You know, data going in is only as good as the person putting it there. So yeah, you have something like Hubdoc or receipt bank, but if it's not being coded correctly or set up for appropriately, there's a lot of problem. And so if they have a problem and you explain why there's a problem, they then go, oh, that's why I pay Amanda what I pay her. Because if I did that, I wouldn't know how to fix it. Or I'd be paying, you know, yearend accountants, a fortune to fix all the adjusting entries that need to go in because they didn't set it up correctly to begin with. Um, most of my clients there, I would say 90% of them will sing my praises all day, all night because they've had a problem that I've been able to fix because they don't know what to do. The other 10% is that they're pretty smooth sailing. They haven't had a problem yet. And so, you know, you don't want to wish the worst than anyone, but it's usually the problems that will get you the great referral.

MP: 10:38 Right? You, you saved somebody from this awful experience. It's like they, they want to, they want to tell the world about it.

AB: 10:45 Yup. Yup, Yup.

MP: 10:47 Beautiful. Now the other part of virtual is you're not seeing these people, you know, in, in real-time like sitting there and you know, across the table from somebody and that is a different type of relationship. And, and one of the key components of business is the relationships that you have. How have you been able to maintain good solid relationships with people being virtual?

AB: 11:14 It's keeping them keeping in communication. So keeping them in the loop, uh, sending emails, uh, making contact even on Facebook, you know, sending them a funny saying that, you know, will apply to their business or their current life circumstances. Trying, trying to call them as much as possible. My hours are all over the place. Depending on the days, the kids have school events, I don't work during the day. I'll be working, you know, between eight, 8:00 PM and midnight. Um, and so my clients will get emails that'll all kinds of the day, but they appreciate the personal touch and the caring. So making sure I know what's happening with their kids. Um, and their families, if you know something's going on in her life, offering to help them with other parts of their business, you know, unless they require someone to sit at their front desk meeting customers, I can pretty much do anything for any of them. So I, whatever they need, I try to offer it. And the offering goes a long way.

MP: 12:13 So you, by the sounds of it, you make a point of understanding what's going on in their life and get to know them on a personal level and then nurture that regardless of the fact that it's virtual.

AB: 12:28 Absolutely. Most of my clients have kids, um, or they'll have parents that they're looking after, um, knowing those little things and they're not little, but knowing the things that don't show up in their bank statements. So thing, but don't show up on their credit card bill. Um, you know, knowing that they're having an issue with a client's not getting payments and coaching them through, you know, the words to say or the, um, things to write. Um, really it allows them to, I think they realize, I know where they're coming from. And you know, virtual hugs are great.

MP: 13:09 Yes, absolutely. And, and that's in many cases what they're going to, you know, connect with you on an emotional level and, and really love working with you on a level that you actually care. And when you care and you demonstrate that through real actions, people, it shifts the relationship too. I mean, you're so far away from being a vendor, uh, that the retention level of clients just goes through the roof because you're, they never want to see you go. And so, you know, this is what I mean. I, I think for everybody that's listening is to think, you know, I almost just thinking a simple as it could be is to just book a session with clients. Maybe not during the busy time or their busy time, but a book or a book a session with clients and say, look, this is just a discovery call to see what, what's not working and what's working, what's not working in your business.

MP: 14:13 And just say, Hey, you know, there's what's going on in your, your business and your life that maybe through the work that we do, we can help improve so that your life can be a lot better. And it's like, yeah, what's going on? You know? And so if you have a strong enough relationship with people, people might actually, uh, say, look, you know, I'm really stressed out about this, this, and this, and now you might be able to not be able to help with any of it, but you can be a person that gets, gets them, understands where they're at, have empathy for them and just that alone changes the relationship and improves the relationship.

AB: 14:48 Exactly. That's exactly it.

MP: 14:50 I that, so now you did mention this, and I do want to touch upon it a little bit here, is you have, you have five kids.

AB: 15:02 Totally right. Thank goodness.

MP: 15:08 How the heck do you balance parenthood with your business? Now I'm thinking, I know it might be some wine glasses of wine here and there involved.

AB: 15:16 You know what, there's coffee in the morning, there's energy drinks during the day and then definitely wine at night when the kids have gone to sleep. We have a family calendar that we think across all devices. My oldest now just received a cell phone. He has the calendar on his phone, everyone knows where everyone is at any time of the day. My husband started a new job last week. It requires a lot of travel to travel, goes into the calendar. Any anyone with either one kid or like myself, five or I've got clients with even more. I always say have a family calendar that everyone can access at all times of the day. I keep it up, up to date. You'll find me at the ice rink meeting with clients during hockey games. They get a kick out of that. Um, you know, if people see us around the communities, they're always commenting on are all those kids yours yet they're all mine.

MP: 16:13 That is beautiful. You know, it's, it's your virtual, your virtual abilities are, are, are solving problems in your own life through a family cloud calendar. I use my calendar religiously, uh, online to look. I use Google calendars and it's on every single device and you know, if it's not in the calendar, literally doesn't exist. And so the problem being is my wife is not like she's, she has a calendar for work and she does all that stuff, but she is not as technical. And so we have a paper calendar, have it in the kitchen ed. So, so I'm, I'm constantly getting in trouble because I haven't migrated my digital calendar to back to paper-based calendar. And it's like, what do you mean it's not on the calendar? So I love that you've done that.

AB: 17:08 If this stuff isn't in there, I can't, I, I'm not gonna apologize if I've missed something. It has to go on the calendar.

MP: 17:17 So now not all of your kids aren't there yet, but you have a, one of your children have a calendar. So I think that's, you know, one, one for everyone, whether you're working virtual or not yet. We all have likely other people in our lives that need us to be certain places at certain times and this and that and a synchronizing calendar is, is a great way to take off the stress and make it easier to just all get the things we need to do get done. So I think from a, a hack if you will, for making life work and family in life. A shared calendar is, is dynamite.

AB: 17:50 It is. Absolutely. I couldn't do without it. My scheduling software for my clients. It seems to you the same Gmail calendar. And so if I've got something booked with the kids or my husband or whatever, they can't book that time with me. So it prevents a lot of a double booking for sure.

MP: 18:08 Beautiful. Now what's the set scheduling system that you're using?

AB: 18:12 Um, I use at, you can book me the free scheduling program that syncs with Gmail, which I absolutely love. You can get a paid version as well, but it's just me, so I don't have to worry so much about that.

MP: 18:25 Okay, cool. So that, that's how clients book with you. So if they want to book time with you, they've booked that. That's now in your calendar and in a way you go. So there's lots of different scheduling apps out there, but it's good to, I've never heard of that one. And that's one. If people are interested or just dipping their toe in this pool right now, then hey, that's another one to check out. And you like it and it's working. And if you're working with Google calendar, excellent. Now this is one thing, right? Is, is you know, bringing all these virtual things and now you've not always been virtual. And I'm sure there's lots of listeners that are, you know, they haven't gone there and they're not, you know, there's lots to do. Where, where do you think people should start to like what's a good, like just, just get this done?

AB: 19:08 If you do this, this will be a huge wind. Take some of what you're doing into the cloud.

MP: 19:13 Wow. I, I don't know, it'd been so long that I, I haven't had any cloud. So you know, if you're, if you've got desktop software, learn the online version. I'm strictly QBO and I have a little bit on QuickBooks desktop that I use with remote access. Um, if you're in simply they've got their online platform as well. So learn the applicable online version of what you've got. Uh, with QuickBooks you get pro advisor or your online pro advisor, you've got your desktop pro advisor, get your certification and learn it. In a lot of cases they're backwards compatible. So you hear if you know desktop QuickBooks and moving to QBO isn't that much of a leap. Um, and I mean if you want to get advanced certified, that's going to take a little bit more, uh, more time out of your, your week for sure, but worth every single penny of time.

MP: 20:15 So really, first step is if you're not on a cloud accounting program, just start learning one and if you're quick, but I mean, it's a natural progression from QuickBooks. Go to QBO if you're, if you got nowhere, there's other options. But get learning something right now. Uh, and that probably will get, that probably goes with some of the other apps too, right there is that you mentioned how DAC and Receipt bank and you know what's uh, what's a low level? He's, he, you know, this is, you can, you can do this. You got this a for one of the APPS, which where would, where would be a good starting point?

AB: 20:51 I would start with, I would start with Hubdoc because that one has saved me hours of time. I one client that would normally take me say 10 hours of data entry, I'm now down to two. It pulls all the bank statements, credit card statements. It allows them to email their receipts and take pictures with their phones. If you don't want to be dealing with courier packages on a daily basis, that's the one that I say would start with. Um, the next in line would be the fleet bank and it's a similar type of platform. They now allow retrieval as well. Um, I'm not sure what their full scope is there, but there they both offer training programs, certifications. You can get your little ProAdvisor badge for almost any single app that you can think of right now. Um, learn it, learn how to integrate it with more platform of choice. And then once you start looking at those ones, you'll find tons more. So find what works best for your, Your Business, your, your practice and start playing with them. There are a lot of fun.

MP: 21:57 Beautiful. Yeah. And I, I can say that hub dock just from our, we use it a ton and absolutely love it. Saves me so much time and just, uh, highly recommend. It's really great app and that's a good, that's a good goal to start with. I mean, right. Regardless of you're in a cloud accounting package, you can, you can benefit, your clients can benefit from this and it's a bit of a, but behavior change, like not everybody's going to be right there. But if you can show the benefit to everybody like you, you know, like your benefit as the bookkeeper is, yeah. Hooray. Nobody cares that you're saving time. In fact, they want to get hit, you know, they're going to want to pay less. Uh, but the real one is forget about that. Let's show them how much time they're going to save. And you know, having to even interact with you. That's, that's money in their bank. I mean, if you're saving two hours, I mean, how much time are they actually saving just in their interactions with you?

AB: 22:57 Yeah, absolutely. And they're not getting those annoying emails. I need your bank statements, I need your bank statements. I need, you know, April, May and June. Yeah, you sent me May and June. I still need April. You know, it's the same thing over and over again.

MP: 23:12 How much like for that, I'm really curious, actually. I love this train of thought. How many this particular client, there's emails, there's just, you know, it's like they get an email, they got an action, that email you gotta do something about it often they might not even, and then it's, they got to come back to it. So there's more time. Like what would you estimate on a monthly basis that that person is saving just from the interaction with you and having to get documents in these sorts of things.

AB: 23:40 I don't know. I guess it would depend on how many bank accounts they have and what have you. I would at least an hour, probably more like two to five hours to five hours a month. I would easily say that.

MP: 23:53 Yeah. I think it's a conservative estimate and yeah.

AB: 23:57 Yes.

MP: 23:58 And so like you, you know, let's think about that for a second. What a message to clients that are not using it. It's like an email. How would you like to get two to five hours back of your time this month?

MP: 24:11 They would be like, where do I sign up?

MP: 24:13 Where do I sign up? And it's a great way like even for networking, I mean, Hey, what do you do?

AB: 24:26 Well, Nah, at the very basic level I could I on average give two to five hours back to the people I work within their businesses. Two to five hours. I mean that's a lot of time to a busy, overworked, small business owner that's like, well how do you do what a great conversation starter. I give people their time back. I give people their time back. Lin diamond help you make more money, save more of a, you know, all those things. But I think that's,

AB: 24:50 yeah, all those.

MP: 24:52 What a great, what a great way to a, it's a conversation starter and then that conversation says, Hey, I'm interested. It's like, well, why don't I come over and I'll tell you what, I'll come over and I'll do a, uh, this is right out of the pure bookkeeping kind of philosophy, but I'll come over and do a health check on your, on your business and I'll, I'll show you how you can use this tool. Yeah. What a, what a great lead into actually getting in front of a client. Now obviously you're not going to come over, you're going to have a web meeting and, and you know, or for, for the technology Savvis like yourself, Amanda, it could be literally like, look, I've got a, I'll send you over a little video of how I'm saving, uh, saving our clients two to five hours a month and we're, what's your email address? Like it's value, it's giving, it's having conver great conversations and, and valuable conversations that are valuable to them. I just love that. I love where I kinda went on a little bit of a tangent there, but I really love that.

AB: 25:52 Awesome. I love that. See Michael, I'm going to use that the next time I go to a meet and greet for sure.

MP: 25:58 Totally away from what everybody's, you know, it's like, it's way to just easily be valuable to people and have a conversation that they're going to be like, I want to call that person back. I want to, when are you coming over? When are we having this meeting? I want my two to five hours back. Uh, so that's, that's really cool. Now I mentioned pure bookkeeping. You are a pure bookkeeping licensee. Tell us a little bit about how that has helped you become a more efficient and, and, uh, enabled to, to grow your business.

AB: 26:28 I use it, you know, the system, it's, it comes down to the system. I have, I used to have things written all over the place. I'd have spreadsheets. I'd have posted notes. Um, I used, I used to, you know, have of clients, I could tell you everything and anything about them. Anytime in the day as I'm growing and adding more clients on to remember who's doing what when I, my brain is so full, you know, so now I bought my checklist, I've got my manuals, I can bring on temporary help or full-time help. Everyone's going to know exactly what going on with any given file. They know how to read, you know, the status reports and what have you. I don't have to do that part, you know, service one thing. I give them a login, they go in the system, print your certificate when you're done and then I'll give you homework to do. It's great.

MP: 27:22 Beautiful. You know it's, it's a, it's always so exciting to hear people building system driven businesses and a system-driven business is one that you're not relying on people, but you're putting more reliance on the systems and, and documented processes that enable you to get more and more scale and just make, make life better and, and get your time back. I mean you're, we're talking about your prospects time back, but you know, it get your own time back in your own sanity back so that you can a, spend more time with your family and be able to do a better job with the clients that you do have. Well, thanks for, for sharing that. Uh, certainly appreciate getting your take on how it's helping you and I've been meaning to reach out and just thank you. I'm not sure exactly how it happened, but I believe that you referred Andrew actually to appear bookkeeping. Yeah. Thank you so much for that.

AB: 28:20 Well, he was starting his business this year and for I guess last 2017 and I said, you know what, if you're going to do bookkeeping, you need to sign up with pure bookkeeping. And he's like, are you sure? Are you sure? I said, yes, you need to do this. I said, if I had started using true bookkeeping 12 years ago, I would've been significantly further ahead.

AB: 28:42 So Yeah, it's a, it's one of those things. It's, it's, it's definitely daunting, but you know, what thank you for, for pushing them. And, uh, and having him and I, I know he's leading, he's leading now. I think you're in his mastermind too, right? So it's kind of like, yeah, it's not his, but I mean he's the ambassador of it if we're a leader of it, but it's just so cool to see, see it going, it kind of happening like that. But I really do appreciate it helps us grow our community and, and so we just want to figure out how to do more of it, get more members so we can just keep on making it even better.

MP: 29:17 Yeah. I'm looking forward to what the years have coming ahead and growth and changes that it'll be awesome.

AB: 29:25 Yeah, we're having some fun and lots, lots of new things to come. So it's a, it's, it's good.

MP: 29:39 And I want to also jump to a point that we didn't really dig deep into, but you know, we touched upon it a little bit. You, you had to restart your business in Alberta five years ago and that, you know, getting clients can be difficult for some people. How have you been able to get the amount of clients that you're constantly full up in your practice?

AB: 30:05 Well, do we have the second time when definitely easier. I knew what not to do, what didn't work previously, so I didn't have to waste money on that. Tried a couple of new things but went back to the same old, same old, which is referrals. Um, so you know, meeting people at Church, meeting people at hockey, the Birch family is, is well known in the city of Luke. Now the family with all those boys and we've got four boys and now we have one girl. And so people recognize us based on who we are. And so I sent out postcards to certain target areas. I loved Canada Post, um, online mailing system. It allows you to target the area that you want, um, and got tons of calls from that. And then from that it goes back to the referrals. They were excited about the work that I did. Either, you know, doing taxes or doing bookkeeping and word of mouth is number one. Number one, you can't beat it. Please. We give good service to the first couple of people. They pass on your name, the other people just sign up without any hesitation.

MP: 31:14 Beautiful. Now tell me, tell me about the Canada post scenario. How, walk me through, how did, how did that go?

AB: 31:21 So Canada post has a, has a business site and basically you create your peer profile, you log in and it has a map. And so you, you know, drill down to the area that you want. Click on the postal codes that you want. You can say, okay, I want them on this strip. I don't want agriculture, I want business only. Or I want only people that live in apartments or only people that live in single-family homes. Um, you, you target, you can target down to like, you know, a couple people in this route and the a hundred people on that route if it's pretty split. Um, and then if you have lot, you just, you bundle it based on what they tell you to bundle it and you drop it off at the post office and away it goes.

MP: 32:02 Wow. So what was your, because you know, the targeting is, is definitely really powerful. I mean that if we're talking marketing, we have to have the right audience. I mean that's, that's definitely, but we have to have the right message and the right offer. What was your message that you were sending out for small business?

AB: 32:22 It was saying, you know, I do bookkeeping, I take care of GST, WCB, pst. It was pretty basic. Not very glamorous. We have a recognizable logo that we use. It's a birch tree. We get a lot of comments from that. So that went on the front of it and on the back it was just, it was a call to action. No, do you need help? Do you want someone else to take over the payroll? Do you want someone else to deal with cra? And it works really well. Simple as simple as better, you know, direct them to your website that lists off all the other services during tax season. For personal tax. It was just saying, Hey, we do personal texts, you know, quick turnaround, you know, whatever you're trying to promote yourself as, you know, great service. Um, again, dealing with cra on your behalf, that's a major pain point with almost every, everyone in Canada, they don't want to deal with Cra. And it's easy enough for us bookkeepers and accountants to do it. So

MP: 33:26 Wonderful. Well that is, that's a, that's a very cool strategy and tactic that you've, you've had some success with and I'm sure there'll be many others that, that we'll want to, to try it perhaps. And uh, I recommend they reach out to you and, and find out more about how they can, how they can do that. What's the best way for people to learn more about you, Amanda?

AB: 33:51 About me personally or about my business?

MP: 33:54 How about your business, about your business and you know, there may be other bookkeepers that want to connect with you.

AB: 34:02 You know, the best way to get, get ahold of me is through my Facebook page, Facebook.com/virtuataccounting. We post some fun stuff on there. You want to address directly, contact me. Email is great. Amanda@BirchAccounting.ca please don't call me right now. Uh, it is tax season but any, any other time of year is fine. I don't mind phone calls as well.

MP: 34:24 Absolutely. And I mean it's a great uh, a great, uh, to, to mention the, The Successful Bookkeeper community on Facebook. You're on there and, and certainly if, if, if other listeners, if you're listening right now and you're not a part of the successful bookkeeper community on Facebook, I mean there, there are a lot of other wonderful bookkeepers just like Amanda that are so generous and so experienced and you know, uh, been there, done that, that can help and be both inspirational but supportive of where you're trying to get to in your business. And I know if you go on to The Successful Bookkeeper, you can just literally connect with Amanda Right there and ask a question or get some direction from her over there and it's really easy for everybody and there's a whole bunch of other awesome benefits to do that as well. Well man, you know, just got to say, I think we could probably keep on talking for a lot more time and I know this is like most times a real busy time for you, but I'd love to have you back and I just want to thank you on behalf of all the listeners for giving up this time to share what's working in your business, some of the things that you've been through and and encouraging people to to do new things, take on new things in their business.

AB: 35:41 It was a great experience and I would love to come back. Michael, thank you so much.

MP: 35:44 Beautiful. We'll look forward to it and uh, until then, Amanda.

AB: 35:48 Thank you. Thank you.

MP: 35:50 Well, that wraps another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast and what a wonderful episode it was to learn more about today's guest and to get access to all sorts of valuable free business-building resources. You can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com. Until next time,

MP: 36:08 goodbye