EP66: Ron Trucks - The Power Of Online Learning For Your Bookkeeping Clients


Have you heard of it?

It's an online learning and teaching marketplace with over 55,000 courses and 15 million students.Recently, on The Successful Bookkeeper Facebook page, we noticed today's guest, Ron Trucks of RJT Consulting, posted a link to his Udemy course, Bookkeeping Basics, which received incredible engagement from our community.

The course is 3 1/2 hours long and features 55 video lessons.

Originally it was for people from non-bookkeeping backgrounds such as small business owners.

So, why would established bookkeepers want to invest in a course that is mainly for beginners?

You're about to find out.

During this interview, you'll learn...

  • How this course helps bookkeepers teach their clients bookkeeping fundamentals

  • Why giving the gift of online education can make a great impression with customers

  • Why it's important to communicate bookkeeping terms in a way your clients can understand

To find out more about Ron, click here.

To use The Successful Bookkeeper discount for Ron's Bookkeeping Basics course, visit this link.


Michael Palmer: 01:11 Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. I am your host, Michael Palmer, and today's show is going to be a great one. Almost 25 years ago, after building his experience in the hospitality industry and working with many business startups, our guests, Ron Trucks, founded his privately owned firm, RJT consulting, guiding and Coaching Small Businesses and nonprofit organizations in a wide variety of fields and industries, both in his hometown of St Louis, Missouri. And across the United States. I discovered Ron on our Successful Bookkeeper Facebook group where we posted an offer regarding his bookkeeper, basic ume coerce, which has had a fantastic response from our members. So I just had to have them on the show. Ron, welcome to the podcast. 

Ron Trucks: 01:54 Thank you, Michael. Happy to be here. 

MP: 01:56 It's great to have you. And I remember seeing that post and wondering, okay, well what's this all about? And it just had an incredible amount of engagement and the response was really great. 

RT: 02:07 It was fantastic. I was, I was happy to see the feedback from everyone. 

MP: 02:11 Yeah. Which is, which is why, why we wanted to have you on. And, uh, first off, let's have you share a bit more about your career background up to this point. 

RT: 02:23 Good. I, uh, as you mentioned, I actually started in the hospitality business working for some large hotels around the St Louis area and then sort of stepped away from it for a little while and moved down to Florida and opened a bar down there. And in the process, I had friends back here in St Louis who were either opening businesses or continuing to try to keep a company up and running. So who I kept was sort of helping them long-distance remote. Finally moved back to St Louis and was just sort of helping out friends and woke up one day and kind of realized that I had a consulting business if I just would have organized it. So that's how we started from there. Um, and what my company, yeah, well my, you know, the analogy that I use is I help business owners who are really good at what they do, but perhaps need help with the business aspect. So, for example, I may work with chefs that are great in a kitchen but don't quite understand how to process payroll or bodybuilders who are great at personal training but need help putting, let's say an inventory system together. 

MP: 03:20 That's very cool. And there's a lot of those people out there 

RT: 03:23 That's right. From that point in time, one of the things that I, that I realized in working with my clients, I found myself meaning time sort of serving as a translator between the business owners who knew how to speak the language of their business and their accountants or their CPAs or their tax advisors. So I sort of was able to stand in the middle and listen to the business side and then also listen to the questions coming from the accounting side and be able to translate back and forth. So while I was working through that process, it hit me, that maybe some basic elementary lessons and learning on the basics of bookkeeping was going to help the business side. So I could help clarify that translation a lot easier. 

MP: 04:05 Very cool. So how did it start out? You started putting together some content and helping your clients. Uh, and what was the, what was the outcome? 

RT: 04:14 Well, and I also missed it a little bit of a chapter here, so let me kill that is about 12 years ago. I also decided that I also wanted to do the teaching. So I reached out to my local community college here outside of St Louis Jefferson college and just walked into the HR department one day and said, I'd love to teach, but I don't know how to get started. So they helped me first I started teaching some continuing education courses on small business bookkeeping and some QuickBooks courses. And then from there received an offer to start going on staff as an adjunct instructor. So that's sort of how I built my curriculum, knowing what I was teaching with the students and then adapted it into the Yutani platform so that I could reach out to business owners and have a platform for them to be able to learn it also. 

MP: 05:00 That's amazing. I just absolutely love that. Walked into the end of the school and to elect, want to be a teacher in a way you go, 

MP: 05:07 Yup, that was good. They, they sort of looked at me a little bit trying to figure out exactly what I was talking about, but then whatever I explained that I'd had a lot of business with training in the corporate world and working with small businesses on a, on a personal level, we were able to find that right path and fill some needs for them as long as helping to start building my, uh, my career or my teaching portfolio. 

MP: 05:29 I just love it because it says a lot about you and I think there's a lot that can be taken away from that approach to anything. Right. You wanted to do something instead of getting all caught up in the house and the why's and whether or not this would or wouldn't work. He just went in and said what you wanted to do and you had the patience to listen to them and make sure they were clear and kept moving the ball forward. I just love that story. 

RT: 05:55 Thank you. That's that it up very well. And you, there were stumbles along the line, boy, that's how were you also learn and grow from those experiences.

MP: 06:04 Yeah, Absolutely. But a, it doesn't happen unless you take the actions, right? 

RT: 06:09 That's correct. 

MP: 06:10 So you came up with this, this course and I love the multi kind of arms, I guess you would say of different thinking, right? Small Business Education, academic, uh, aspect as well as real-time coaching experience, real-time, business experience. It really puts it at a, puts you in a position where you can and can help a business owner and bring a lot to them. 

RT: 06:39 Well, exactly. And that's, that was the nice part about where quite a few of the threads from my path and I'll seem to cross at one point in time was as we were starting to design the first course, the bookkeeping basic scores, the question was, you know, part of that market analysis of who is it that we're putting this out there for him, there was a tendency to try to pigeonhole it a little bit tighter and we said, no, let's keep it a little bit more general and let's make sure that we're putting a product out of course out educational materials out that can, as you said, and if it's small business owners especially, but also as I said, I teach some bookkeeping courses and students are always wanting to get a little bit tighter grasp, so let's make it available to them. Let's make it available to CPAs and other tax professionals to be able to recommend to their clients, et cetera. So we just sort of tried to keep it generic but yet fill in enough gaps that everybody felt comfortable with. 

MP: 07:34 Very cool. Now tell me about you to me because while you and I are having a conversation about it, I kind of realized that many may have never heard listening, have never heard. What you to me is all about 

RT: 07:48 It is, it's an amazing platform. It, they basically build themselves as a marketplace for anyone who wants to produce and develop an educational video, educational either just a single course or series. So everyone's open to what or they're pretty much open to whatever topics you want to put up. Whether it is a business platform or whether it is recreational. There are cooking classes and there are yoga classes. There was also quite a bit in coding for computer coding, but there's, there's, we're building a stronger business support area and they're also, so courses range. There's a wide range from completely free courses up to very in-depth longterm courses that can run into the hundreds of dollars. So we've positioned ourselves in a very economical range of that market and gives everyone who is interested as they're breezing through trying to figure out exactly what will help them learn the best way. 

RT: 08:49 So one of the things that I love about a year to me is that there, it's required that there be a visual video component of it. So it isn't just an online where you're looking at a quick book screen and let's say you're actually having interactions with students and what a lot, a lot of us do in the courses we have there in the supplement that not only with handouts and other materials but also for example, as you mentioned, um, we have a Facebook group specifically for this class. So we've got a couple of hundred people right now who have enrolled in the course to you, to me, but also has joined our Facebook or a private Facebook group. So as those students come up with questions, they put them up, we can answer them or other students who have experienced can also respond. So it's basically an ongoing educational classroom. 

MP: 09:43 Very cool. Now, would you, when you first started getting this course created, you were essentially helping small business owners and what have you found along the way? Has it who have stepped up and sort of been the clients of this? Of this course. 

RT: 10:04 Well, and we range from quite a few different directions there. What I do personally is anytime that I'm working with a new client of mine, I offer it as is or three experiments that I cover just so they can, well let me take just a step back. One of the things about the courses, it actually can flow in two different directions. You can proceed through this course in sequential order or it can also be used as a reference. So we may, we have a, we have a section on income, we have a section on expenses. We have an exception on accounts receivable. So if the students want to just target a particular area that they're not comfortable with, they can pick those out. And that's what I've found more with my clients is the courses probably about three and a half hours long, but it's broken down into about 55 different lessons. Most of my clients won't sit down and go through the whole thing, but I can follow their progress and they will go through and whenever we start talking about the fact that they're having some troubles, we'll say what their receivables, I watched them, they'll go pull out the receivable section in the course and work through that so that whenever we sit down and talk about it the next time we were all sort of speaking the same language and we understand what he should do. Talking about 

MP: 11:21 Beautiful. What a fantastic way to support your clients from that perspective. Right? It's here's the challenge you're having, here's some education that will help you overcome that hurdle. And, and whilst yeah, it really is designed for the new way people learn. 

RT: 11:41 Exactly. And two things that I think I'll throw in there is number one, I tried very, very hard with the course. I, I'm one of those instructors. One of the things that I tell my students in classes, I don't like answers. Please don't read me a quote from the textbook. Let's just talk about it person to person. So I can make sure that you understand it and that's the way we've developed the course is it, I don't use a lot of terminologies. In fact, one of the phrases that I use in the courses, if you tried to use this exact words with a CPA, the response you're probably going to get is, well yeah, that's basically right, but I understand how you're saying it that way so you can understand it and that's the way we approach it on the course. The other thing that I think that I have always felt comfortable, felt happy about once we developed this course is it's just more value-added for my clients. It's something that I'm able to give them as a resource along with my consulting services or my bookkeeping services that can fit on the shelf. And whenever it's there, it's there for them. So it's sort of included in all of my package with clients. 

RT: 12:44 That's what I love. I love most about that. This whole problem. A lot of I love about it, but this is really cool is that your differentiating yourself by being valuable and you know you could, there's all this knowledge and every single listener listening right now has life experience and knowledge from multiple areas seeing different things happen and we're all constantly teaching, aren't we? Every single day we're teaching something to, to our clients, to the people in our lives. What you've done is you've actually documented that so you don't have to do it every single time, which is brilliant. 

RT: 13:21 That is, that is exactly the case. In fact, it's a little funny because occasionally I'll get a client who will call me and say, I noticed that you gave me this course for my resource, but my freshman and high school daughter is taking bookkeeping. Do you mind if I let her go through the course? Yeah, I mean that's exactly what it's out there for is to be that resource. Use it for business. But it's also there for other reasons. 

MP: 13:45 Absolutely. And so you know, it was a big hit in the successful bookkeeper community. Why do you think that was? Who, who, who was stepping up and actually consuming this? Did they want this for their clients or did they want this for themselves? 

RT: 13:59 Well, and I think the best answer to that probably is for their clients. Um, as I said, we, we approached the course from the, from the pure basics. I would say probably 80 85% of it's for clients. I get some feedback on the other 15% of thank you because you helped me figure out how to express what I was trying to say to my clients in a way that they understood. One of the things that I, one of the things that I tell my students in my classes, I need you all to talk to each other as students because I can say something 14 different ways and you might need the 15th way that the person sitting next to you might be able to say. So that's the other branch of what I, what I hope to do with this, with this course, and we've got some other ones on the way, is being able to also help the professionals in the field find out maybe not a better way, but a different way that their client may click a little bit better for their client. Let's put it that way. 

MP: 14:57 I love it and it's such a cool, yeah, it's such a cool concept, right? Is that people who are really bright know what they're talking about, advanced level of bookkeeping watching the course to essentially understand how to put it in such simple terms that it can help their clients because it's the curse of knowledge, right? When you know, know things, you believe that other people have the same level of knowledge. It's hard to see where the gaps are. 

RT: 15:26 Well, that's exactly right and that's one of the things that I learned because as I said, I'm, I graduated college, we are a hospitality degree. That's where I started and at the very beginning of my career working with, with financials and everything else, I would have CPAs look at me when I'm trying to get them to make an adjustment and they would say, are you getting better? Are you crediting that? And my response was, I don't have any idea. I need this one to go higher and I need this one to go lower. So I was, fortunately, working with the professionals that I was working with for them to be able to say, okay, let me explain to you how this works. But even at that, there were some of those professionals that I was working with. I think you sort of reference, they know their material and their knowledge so well that they struggled to realize that others don't know what as well as they do. So that isn't a knowledge problem. It's actually just a communication problem. 

MP: 16:19 You're absolutely right. 

MP: 16:26 Now you mentioned you are going to create some, some new courses. Tell us about those. 

RT: 16:33 We have our, basically the plan was that we wanted to roll out the bookkeeping basics course because it's our very first course. I knew you'd Amanda wanted to spend six days, nine months getting a feel for how the platform works, getting an idea of how well it was going to be received. I had been using a lot of this, like I said, with my clients previously, but packaging it and putting it out for public consumption is obviously a different approach. So now that we've done that and the response has been amazing, we're, we've got quite a few different courses that were in different stages of development with and we basically break them down into what we call a focus course or a masterclass who keeping basics was a master's class probably like I said, probably that three and a half hours, 55 individual different video lessons. 

RT: 17:20 Some of them were going to do a little bit more short focused 30-minute lesson. So, for example, we've got one that we're in the process of writing the script for right now of what does debit and credit mean and to be able to explain the concept of t accounts and how the relationships work. That's just going to be a short 30-minute focus one. Another one that we're working on and my mom is having trouble figuring out how to get it just into one course is the basics of QuickBooks because those of us who use QuickBooks or even any of the software programs and those could turn into a semester-long full college credit course if you do it right. So the point there is trying to keep that basic level, the open communication without getting too intense on the subject but still, fill it out so that we're covering enough of the basis. 

RT: 18:10 So we've got both of those. We've got a payroll tax system coming up. We've also got one that deals with the basics of how sales tax and personal property tax work. And then we're also moving into some other areas. One of the things that I had a request from fry quite a few clients on was the bookkeeping basics courses. Good. But could you do just a little bit more of a personal finance course that could actually be a good bridge between how people understand their personal finances and how that translates into business finances? So that's actually the next one we've got coming out, um, probably within the next month or so that'd be rolled out. 

MP: 18:50 That's very cool. So it's, it, I, I really see that it's a fine balance between taking it too far and becoming a college course or something like that and keeping it to your core, which is helping people get the fine fundamentals, Right? 

RT: 19:06 Exactly, exactly. Because, and that's, that's one of the things I love working with small businesses and small business owners. I get a little challenged nowadays because I deal with some people who think that a small business is a 50 60 $70 million business and the restaurant that I'm working with down the street needs a different level of service than what typically sometimes will fall into the definition of a small business. So that's where we're sort of targeting these courses is for if we want to use the phrase a mom and pop business. I'm not always crazy about that, but sort of that micro-business level for people who are juggling an awful lot of balls and need to have just a general knowledge so that they can feel comfortable. And that's one of the things that I encouraged them to do is these courses allow you to be able to sit in tax advisors, officer's CPA's office and have it do two things. One, have a general understanding of what they're talking about and make you, or allow you to feel comfortable asking questions, being able to say, okay, I understand what you were saying on that, but here's what I understand. Helped me bridge that difference. 

MP: 20:15 Yeah, yeah. You're, you're absolutely right. It is. And I, I think it's interesting what you're saying about small business, like the definition of it as well. And I would say most listeners are not bookkeeping for 50 to $75 million companies. It's more like the 100,000 to, you know, 2 million, 1 million, 2 million, somewhere in there. Right. That's the real, you know, we look at a community and an anywhere in North America. That's, those are what most people say. Oh yeah, that's a small business. 

RT: 20:48 That's right. That's exactly right. You know, I'm fortunate, I've got a range of clients. Um, I, I vary from those hundred thousand dollars a year, maybe restaurant up to, we also handle it pretty good-sized private equity firm that's dealing with that, you know, 250, $300 million worth of assets. That's, that's rare for me because I do try to focus on more on the smaller end, but there's a wide range in there, but it's still amazing how much the communication questions and the learning questions are consistent all the way across the board. 

MP: 21:21 Absolutely. I, I'm never surprised to hear people be how surprised they are about the little that people know about the fundamentals of accounting. Uh, and, and it, and it really is where a lot of our clients will say, yeah, you know, I just had no idea. Like even a, an accountant or a person that's doing, um, you know, the ca like people expect that because they're at that level, they know everything about anything to do with accounting and it's not the case. It's like that in any, any, any profession, any industry, the medical profession, engineering, you know, you think someone has an engineering title and while they know everything about bridges, they know everything about foundations. Right. And they don't. 

RT: 22:06 Exactly, exactly. I mean that's, that's almost, you know, in tying it back to even food and beverage, you know, they, they think because you're in a restaurant, you should be able to cook everything from biscuits and gravy to an amazing French dinner. And the world turns to, to focus on the areas that it wants to focus on. And that's just the exact same thing in our industry. 

MP: 22:30 Wow. So how was, how was all of this helped your consulting and coaching business? 

RT: 22:36 My business is, um, is doing well. The reason why I hesitate on that just a little bit is that we're pretty much the entire 25 years. I focused on a very small list of clients. I usually got not more than six or maybe seven clients at a time. I don't do any marketing because all of my clients come to me from word of mouth and referrals. Um, one of the things that I have as far as my bookkeeping side of my business, what I typically do is I work with clients that I get referred to from CPA firms that I've worked within the past. So they have a client that's coming in, you know, w we all know those stories. It's tax time and the client walks in the door with a great big cardboard box and says, here's everything for my taxes. They will recommend touching base with me. 

RT: 23:24 So what we do on my end is we'll establish the relationship. We will come in and start with the books first to just get a good general idea and on how the operation works. And especially if it's a field that we haven't necessarily consulted in before. That's where we learned the basics. From there we will help them get organized from there and branch out, um, be able to make recommendations on, you know, perhaps we need to be looking at putting an inventory system in or let's get the HR aspect a little bit more organized and help you build a, an employee handbook. Once they feel comfortable, we sort of melt back into handling their daily, weekly, monthly bookkeeping with the expectation that they will have a CPA on staff at the end of the year because we don't do taxes. But then we're also there for just to assist when a need comes up. I had a client probably about three weeks ago, she was a private chiropractor. She was in the process of meeting to terminate her first employee. She's never terminated an employee before. So she reached out to us and we sort of stepped up into that role and started talking about all the things we needed to help with all the things she needed to be thinking about. Once I was done, we just slipped back into just handling the bookkeeping work.

MP: 24:39 I love it. 

MP: 24:47 You know, it, it's a, on many levels, a very innovative what you're doing with education to educate your clients. And it as well, it'll, you know, may even take over what you're doing with your current business are split into two different businesses. But, uh, as well, you know, just the way that you're, you're growing your business and how you're, how you're treating it very consultative and that's, that's beautiful. 

RT: 25:13 Well, and, and they do sort of feedback and forth between each are there, I was just contacted within the last week or so of someone who became aware of us through our, uh, through the course, or does you, to me, that is wanting to talk about the possibility of us starting to assist with their books. Um, and it's remote client, so we're still working out how comfortable they're going to feel with that system, with that process. Um, one of the things that I've always kind of found is whenever we pick up a new client, somewhere along the line, there is a natural instinct that we need to have either a part-time or full-time bookkeeper on-premises five days a week, eight hours a day. And one of the things that we try to get them to understand is we can do that. But in reality, you're probably paying for more than what you need because at some point in time there's going to be dead time. So instead of that, let's scale that back and let me and my teamwork out of our remote offices and we will meet with you one or two or even three times a week in the beginning until you feel more comfortable with this. 

MP: 26:20 It's the way, it's the way it's a way to. yeah, yeah, 

RT: 26:24 Exactly. Yeah. And that's, that's following them a lot of the models that you deal with on a regular basis. 

MP: 26:28 Yeah. It's what's needed to, in order to maximize the efficiency of what you're doing. And that's part of being valuable is, is, is, is giving them what they need and they don't know what they need. And so it's through education, through conversations and, and I, and what you're doing with this, look, we're gonna hold your hand, if you will, on that. I mean, we're not going to say that to a client, but we're gonna, you know, we're gonna take care of this in the beginning. You'll, you'll hear from us more to help them feel comfortable and to get the feeling that this is the right way to go. But I think that's what Michael Gerber would call leadership, right? You're showing leadership 

RT: 27:12 Exactly right 

MP: 27:13 As to how this is going to go. It's not like they're telling you how it's going to go. You're like, ah, I get how you want to go get it to go. But with you, like reach, you pay off into a way that might be better for you that you're going to absolutely love and get more value from. Right. So I love that. That's fantastic. 

RT: 27:28 Right? And I think the other thing is is that I sort of tried to incorporate and with the education is empowering them to be able to say the words, I don't know about this because all of us are small business owners. There is that self-conscious level of I should be the one that's able to keep all of the balls in the air and sometimes admitting that I don't know, something is going to make me look weak. No, it's, as we discussed earlier and as we were discussing now it's important to be able to say, this isn't my strong area. Can you help me figure this out? Or I thought because I've been told for 20 years that I'm supposed to have a bookkeeper on-premise five days a week, eight hours a day. That's what I thought. Are you telling me that there's another way to do this? And you're right. Leading them and helping them understand. 

MP: 28:16 Mm. Yeah, it's great. Now, how do the listeners take advantage of what you've built for your process? How can they educate, use what you've built to educate their clients and, and, and s and in a way that's gonna support them? Is there a way to do that? 

RT: 28:35 There is one, and that's actually kind of how our paths crossed in the first place because I had been following your Facebook group and um, there were some questions that came up about, uh, helping clients understand and I threw an offer out to them at that point in time, which I'll be happy to do now, which is I would be happy to offer one copy of the course for free for anyone who is interested in it, for them to be able to see what's going on. And then from there, anybody who would be interested in making this available for their clients, we run a really, really low discounted rate on it that they can do. One of the two things is actually one of the three things I've had. I've had other CPAs and bookkeepers purchase a block of the courses of interest, be able to give out the coupon codes for a free course to their client. 

RT: 29:25 I've also had them, uh, reach out to their clients and say, here's the course that we're recommending and here is a discount code that you can get at a cheaper rate. Or they've also just said, can you go ahead and, and if you decide to enroll in this course then let me know when I'll drop that. I'll credit your account back for what you spend on the course. And I know that I know that sounds a little bit like I'm rolling my own blogger that I'm, that I'm promoting the product and I guess I am 

RT: 29:55 in some lawyers. Goodness gracious me. Don't promote your own products. 

RT: 30:00 Okay. Exactly. But I guess my point on that is I have no problems with the professionals or the professionals in guru listeners receiving a copy of the course because I want them to feel comfortable on is it something that will work for them or not. And then from there if they're willing or after I got arrested and making it available, whether they pay for it themselves and give it as a gift to the client, which I will say probably I've heard is a little bit better feedback because your clients are always going to be a little bit more interested in taking advantage of something that they think is being given to them free versus them having to pay for it and give credit back on it later. 

MP: 30:35 I agree. And there's, it sounds like there are multiple ways to do it, but if it's, if what I would be looking at is from the listener is how do you use this as a way to, um, be different, differentiate yourself, help your clients and not all of your clients are going to need something like this, but having it as one of those tools in your tool belt, uh, it, I think it's, it's really important and it could really help your client. I mean, having some fundamentals, uh, basic ideas and understanding will help your client, but it'll also help you and get your job done. So something to keep an eye on. And I'm sure Ron, you're going to be probably modifying it and tweaking it as you go, as you learn what, what the bookkeeping community needs for their clients. Maybe there'll be iterations and changes, but I think it's a good idea to get in there, check it out and see how it can help all of you and your businesses. 

RT: 31:29 Well, and Michael, I'm glad that you mentioned that because that's one of the expectations that you to me has for any courses that are on its marketplace. But it's also something, an expectation that we built in for this course and all the ones going forward is we will be continuing to add material. The entire last section of each of our courses is basically just, and also don't forget about this stuff type of a section. So as we get feedback from courses through our Facebook page, emails, all those kinds of things, we're constantly adding not only topics for new courses, but additional material that we want to add for the courses. They worry already either have up there or haven't development. So we love to hear that kind of feedback. 

MP: 32:10 It's great. It's great. Now, Ron, what's the best way, I mean we'll put links in the show notes, but is there a quick way for them to, for our listener to just jump on and find out more? 

RT: 32:22 There is and actually a probably in, in selling myself, the one thing I forgot to do more than anything else is mentioned the name of the company that was awkward, you know, all this under and that is business atlas but it's spelled a little bit different. It's B s n s atlas ATL an s.com and that's the website that shows everything on the courses where we're at, what we've got scheduled coming up. Plus also that's the way that we can reach out. I will, uh, I'll be making sure to get a splash page out there for you so that all of your listeners can find this off the right away whenever they visit the website. 

MP: 32:57 That's great. Well, we'll have that link in the show notes. So if you're listening right now and you want to to find out about it, just scroll down, tap wherever you need to tap on your phone and get that link and go, go find a find out more. Uh, Ron, this has been great. Thank you so much. It's a, it's been an interest. You have such an interesting story and you're doing great work too to help the community as well as help the small business community. 

RT: 33:22 Well, I really appreciate it. I appreciate the time and I also appreciate what you're doing, helping everyone understand and, and fill in a lot of these areas. In some ways we're, we're kind of following some similar paths here too, so, 

MP: 33:33 Yeah, absolutely. I think so. It's a, and it's great to have someone that's, that's a, in the community that that's helping. So that's what makes a good community, a strong community. 

RT: 33:44 Great. If there's anything I can do for either you or any of your listeners, always feel free to reach out. 

MP: 33:49 I encourage everyone to do that. That's it's great. And thank you, Ron. Thank you. That wraps another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. To learn more about today's fabulous guests and to get access to all sorts of valuable free business-building resources. You can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com until next time, goodbye.