Are you introverted?
If so, you're not alone.
Many bookkeepers are.
But, what if there were ways to be more at ease around people and have win-win partnerships with them?
Today's guest, Siobhan Harrop-Scott of Harrop Scott & Associates Ltd., has some ideas that just might help.
Through her bookkeeping business, she's developed hundreds of connections and has become a terrific leader for her staff.
During this insightful interview, you'll learn...
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The importance of listening and taking notes when speaking with people and having a system to record that information for future meetings
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Why you must be supportive and consistent in your daily communication with your staff
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Why building positive relationships are good for relieving stress
To learn more about Siobhan, visit here.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
Michael Palmer: 01:03 Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. I am your host, Michael Palmer, and today's show is going to be another great one. Our guest is the successful bookkeeping business owner of Harrop Scott and associates, which has been operating since 2010 she empowers business owners to make financial decisions by providing impeccable books, detailed reports, and analysis. She's also passionate about enterprise development and loves helping medical, legal, real estate, it and creative professionals grow their business. Siobhan Harrop-Scott, welcome to the podcast.
Siobhan Harrop-Scott: 01:39 Thank you, Michael. It's great to be here.
MP: 01:42 Well it's great to have you and I know your business is a busy one and it's very active. And so having you on the show and giving us this time is very much appreciated.
SHS: 01:53 Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm happy to do it. I'm so appreciative of the Pure Bookkeeping community.
MP: 02:00 Thank you. Thank you. And we're appreciative of you. And now Siobhan before we get started, can you let us know a little bit about your career background that has led you up to this point?
SHS: 02:13 Sure. Um, so I, I actually started a bookkeeping business in 2000 and I was unincorporated for the first 10 years and I started out by myself. I had a main client who was an accountant and she had her own business, uh, running training programs for people who wanted to become an accountant. And I was her administrator as well as her bookkeeper. I did some marketing for her and that was my start. And then she referred me to some other accountants that she knew and I, I, my business grew from there. I started out with a couple of other clients and then eventually gained probably by year five I had about 20 or 30 clients and I had my first couple of people working with me. I brought on some friends, people that I had met who were doing bookkeeping and they helped me take on clients in locations that I couldn't get to or when the work became too much and it just grew from there.
SHS: 03:25 And eventually I started hiring people that I didn't know. And, and then in 2010, I incorporated and started hiring employees and I've got a benefits plan now and uh, Eno insurance and all kinds of other things. We, uh, an actual client of mine started my original website and then we paid somebody to develop a whole new, new and improved website. And we've got pictures and testimonials on there. So the business just, it just kept evolving. It kept growing. And I became a pure bookkeeping licensee, I think about three years ago. And that has really helped as well because it's given me a lot of structure around the growth and around the procedures and documentation so that you have, I have the systems in place to recruit new people and bring on new clients as well.
MP: 04:24 Beautiful. It's, it's quite a journey and one that is, you know, common and that you, you start off well obviously small and it, and maybe didn't even anticipate having your own business. Did you think that you would have a business when you first got started?
SHS: 04:39 I certainly didn't imagine it would grow to what it's grown to. No, I didn't, in the beginning, I thought, okay, well I'll make some money so that I can be self-employed and have flexible hours and then, yeah, no, I had no idea.
MP: 04:54 It's amazing. It's great. Always great to hear and, and I know your business and I know that it's going well and you provide jobs for people, you provide information to business owners to help them build their business. And so it's just interesting to watch how it started out as just being able to have, you know, somewhat of a, a self directed, uh, I don't want to say selfish but self, uh, thinking of trying to think of the word here, but it's, you know, you wanted a job that had freedom and flexibility and make some money but now your business has grown and you're actually providing that for other people, which is, you know, which is kind of interesting. Right. And probably have less freedom and flexibility cause your business has, has grown. So it's, it's always interesting to hear someone's journey from the start point. If looking back Chavon if you could do it all again, would you change anything?
SHS: 05:48 I don't think so. No. I really don't think so. It evolved. Everything evolved that surely, I guess it wouldn't have hurt to be more informed when I was starting out regarding some systems that I could put in place. But I'm pretty pleased with what I did. Like, just, just naturally when I, when I added clients I, I documented procedures and making sure that we had a, you know, a database in excel of what their deadlines were. Cause I knew in the back of my mind or if I can't make it then I'm, Katherine might go out and do this client for me or Martha might go out and do, do this client. So yeah, I mean if anything I, I wouldn't do anything differently. I would just, I think it's great when people starting out have the support of pure bookkeeping because then they can, they can learn the things that I learned later on. They can learn it earlier in their growth.
MP: 06:56 Yes, which is great. And I think it's also an interesting question and I'm glad that you brought it up, which is, you know, being more informed. And I think that part of what we do as a podcast and our book and the work that we do is to bring as much information to people who are at every level of their business, whether they're just getting started or even thinking about just getting started right up to having multiple employees and, and you know, what, what's next. So it's always that more information is always helpful when you're trying to make decisions in your own business and design where you're trying to get to. Was there a specific area that you would have wished you'd had? More information?
SHS: 07:41 Probably regarding hiring would be one area and, oh, hiring and pricing. Yeah.
MP: 07:50 So hiring, hiring and pricing. And now looking back, what would you say to someone? Where should they go looking if they're saying sitting there going, okay, well I should probably educate myself around hiring and pricing? What would, what would be your recommendations?
SHS: 08:07 Well, the Pure Bookkeeping an HR system is fantastic. Uh, the testing that's available, the QuickBooks tests, the siege tests, and all the materials, the interview questions, the forms that you can use for a phone interview in-person interview, uh, the forms that you can use to mark the tests and mark your own performance during an interview. The, uh, the excel templates that you can use for gathering information about your staff are all really helpful.
MP: 08:39 Hmm. Yeah. For the, for the pricing I'm getting, I'm getting information from a lot of different sources regarding pricing and yeah,
MP: 08:49 I think it's a, yeah, I think that one is, is a massive conversation. So I'd love to hear a little bit about what, you know, what has been a challenge for you and where you've gone the different places you've gone because there's, this is a question I almost, I almost get it daily around pricing.
SHS: 09:06 Yeah. I mean the be the starting point for me was figuring out what other people were charging or what I could expect to charge in the market. And I started out of, I started out at a relatively low rate. Initially, I was $12 an hour, but I can do a thousand and I was doing, admittedly I was doing mostly administrative tasks at that time. And then I increased myself gradually to $18 an hour when I was doing the administration and, and bookkeeping for my original client. And then I started thinking about, well, I should do some research to see what other bookkeepers are charging. And um, I expanded my practice and started charging in the sort of 20 to $25 range. And then I, I did more research and realize, hey, wait for a second, there are people charging 30 to $40 an hour. And, and then I at the same time I was taking courses at colleges.
SHS: 10:10 I was initially living downtown and taking courses at George Brown. And then I moved to North York and started taking courses at Seneca because I wanted to make sure that if I was charging higher rates that I also had the aging education to back me up, which is also where pure book, he could keep incomes in because you get, you can get certified through pure bookkeeping. And then you know, you've got a certain standard, um, and you can do it through IPBC and, and the other, there are some other national organizations, but IPBC is the premier one. So along with pricing, you want to make sure that you've got the education and that so that you can deliver the quality of work that people are going to be expecting at that higher rates because people don't have a problem paying somebody $15 an hour to do administrative stuff and they're not expecting the same skill level as they are when they're paying somebody $40 an hour or higher as I'm now charging.
SHS: 11:10 And Yeah, so I did some market research and then even later that, that original market research was probably back in 2005 and then even later in 2010 to now, then I started, you know, I was attending at that time, I was attending more conferences. Uh, I didn't really have a full-time membership with IPBC until I think 2010 and I started going to the intuit conferences and then I became very much aware of pricing. And I started to charge higher rates. I started getting up into the 60 50 60, 70 an hour for myself and my staff. And then then I started to hear about value, value pricing and pricing, flat rate, billings per month, and that, and that's something that I'm still learning right now.
MP: 12:06 It's common. A lot of folks are looking at fixed and value pricing and it's a big conversation. We've had both Ron Baker and mark Wickersham on the podcast and, and I think it's one of those ones that does require a lot of research, a lot of education and training to be able to master it because it's not as simple as just step one, step two, step three. There's, there are lots of levels and inter intricacies to that conversation. But what I hear from what you're saying is that you started very low and then you built up your confidence and you looked at the marketplace and now you're shifting more to, to value, but all the way through it's about valuing your own time, your own and yourself and what, what it is that you do.
SHS: 12:55 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you know you, you don't want to charge people less than what you're worth and you also don't want to charge people more because then they can come back at you and say, wait for a second, I'm paying you this and I don't think you did that. I delivered it. You know, I want, I ran into that situation. I, I had that situation with a law firm. I, I got into working in PC law and with law firms and then I, I learned a whole big lesson about it because I learned that I wasn't an expert in it and I couldn't charge the same prices as I do with my quickbooks clients and the areas where I am an expert, which are like you said at the beginning, medical, medical doctors, creative professionals, including interior designers and professional photographers. And I also work with a lot of its people and we work with wholesalers.
SHS: 13:53 Jumping into the legal field was a whole different thing. I tried charging my same rates and I wasn't worth it because there are people that do 100% law bookkeeping, charging between 30 and 50 an hour and for me to charge 60 to 70 I wasn't delivering what they were expecting and I had to admit that to myself and I had to make the decision that I have to get out of this area because I'm not an expert in it. That was a big lesson. It was an important lesson. I mean it's very rare that that happens. It's, it's more common. I think that I look at my clients and realize, wait a minute, I'm delivering huge value for these people. And sometimes I'm doing it in very few hours per week. And then I have to look at, well wait a minute, I have to introduce a different kind of billing or value pricing, be to recognize all the experience that that our firm brings to the table in terms of setting up businesses and advising people on how to properly set up their databases to properly use them if they're going to have multiple people from their team using them.
SHS: 15:04 So yeah, it is, it is this with pricing, you're doing this, check yourself against the market, you're checking yourself against what you know to be true for yourself and your own expertise.
MP: 15:18 Mm. So definitely some great, great lessons. And I love that you looked at the legal profession and, and made a decision. I mean that's what, that's what business owners have to do is look at both sides of the table and determine is this what I'm great at and do I want to go in that direction? Because by all means, you could have, you know, sunk your teeth into it and said, this is going to be an area that I'm going to be in an expert add and, and ramp it up. But you decided to leave that to the people who, who want to be experts there and you're going to focus back on the things that you know are your core competencies, your expertise as you say, which is great.
SHS: 16:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's difficult to be a generalist, which my firm is a little bit, we're, we're not very narrow in our focus, but I realized that we have to, we do have to exclude certain types of services and it just, it just makes more sense to do it that way. It's more efficient.
MP: 16:22 Yeah. That's great. That's awesome. Well, I think it's great because you, you know, whilst you're not narrow, narrow, narrow, you're, you are starting to remove some options and, and really know that you know what you are an expert in and if you just continue to grow that it'll be good for your business. Now I'm going to take it in a different direction here because I have read in some of my prep notes that you're very proud of the business relationships that you've had with key people over the years. What in your opinion are the key factors in building strong win-win business partnerships?
SHS: 16:58 I think the key, the key factors are listening for one and I listened to what people say and I take note. I do that with referral sources or for referral partners. I do that with my clients. I do that with my staff. I take notes. I mean they're not detailed copious notes for every single interaction that I have, but I find myself in in these key conversations with people sometimes and I'm grabbing my notebook or their file and I'm making these notes because people say these really interesting things and people are quite creative with their language sometimes and you can really understand who they are as a person by some of the phrases that they use. I mean, it's more important when you're onboarding a client or when you're talking to a prospect or when you're having that annual evaluation with your client that you've had for many years.
SHS: 17:58 You want to take, you want to be careful to take notes then because you'll hear things about, they'll reflect on the past and they'll look, they'll make comments about where they want to go in the future and, and sometimes I'm, I'm, you know, asking them directly those questions, what do you feel went really well in the last year? Where are you looking to go? Um, and I'm taking these notes because I find myself going back to them and, and reading them and it helps me reframe future conversations that I'm having with them. Um, and I'll read the notes sometimes before I go into the office, before I meet with them the next time or before I send them the next email. I find it listening and taking notes is a fantastic way to string together those conversations and those interactions that you have with, with people and build a stronger relationship out of it.
SHS: 18:56 These are people that, I mean they're, they're not my best friends, they're not my family and I've got hundreds of these kinds of relationships, but I try to take down the meat, little details, the interesting things that they say, and it could be things about their business or their personal life, but I write them down because it helps me get a hook into who they are as a person and what really excites them and I find that that helps them. It helps me build a warmer relationship with them where I can call them up and say, Hey, can I have a photo shoot in your, in your office? And they're like, oh yeah, no problem. Or, Hey, can you write a testimonial for me? And Hey, you're a travel agent, what do you know about traveling in this country? Or whatever. It just, it, it really helps to figure out what really makes people tick is, is the key to getting to know them and building that, that really is this friendship.
MP: 20:05 I really love that. I mean, when you say hundreds, right? That's a lot of people and I think that a lot of people would, would maybe even be intimidated by the fact that you have these, these stronger business friendships with that many people. I mean that's a lot of people to keep track of, but what comes to mind are is I have a relative that is into hockey cards and it's, it just blows me away at how much they know at all these different hockey cards. Like they, there is the condition of the cards. Like I mean there's just, it almost seems like hundreds of different variables and all these different people. I mean there are hundreds maybe even I guess would be thousands of different hockey cards, baseball cards, basketball, like just ridiculous amounts of information and wild stats. What they're passionate about is basically having relationships with hockey cards, but it's more than that. It's relationships with the people who trade them and all that good stuff. But you've actually done that with people and you know, keeping notes and, and understanding what, where do you think you learned that or where did you get that passion or desire to actually have that happening in your life?
SHS: 21:19 Um, well like I think some of it I inherited, my father was a high school teacher and he was also a librarian and he was also the, uh, he also ran the yearbook for many years. He took students to England and France on trips. He was also a municipal politician, so he was one of these types of people that could have hundreds of acquaintances. He, I think he had thousands, thousands
SHS: 21:45 probably. Yeah,
SHS: 21:46 thousands of acquaintances. And he had these very warm relationships with people. He would do his campaigning and he would drive down all, we grew up in a small town. He would drive down all the back roads and visit everybody. And he had, you know, he had been and had tea or coffee at various people's houses over the years. He was a politician for over 10 years. So I think some of it's just an inherited thing and I'm a little bit more introverted than he is, but um, I've managed to do it with a smaller number of people and yeah, the comparison with hockey cards is interesting because it is, I am keeping some vital stats on these people. And then also, you know, I'm, I make notes so every client has a hard copy file folder and I've got their vital stats written on there. And then there's a, I have a printout of a database with that information in there, but I write these other little notes like things like dogs' names and names of their kids and stuff like that. Yeah, it's just, I guess I just realized that it works, that it was a way to remember, like I think I'd heard in some business a book or something that when you meet people you should write down the things that you know, people's names and make some other notes, something that'll, that'll make you remember them. So I've been doing it and it's been working and it kind of reinforces itself.
SHS: 23:11 It is definitely a, I would say a key success factor. And I believe that book that is, I mean there's probably a lot of books, obviously 3000 new books every day printed. But there is a book called how to win friends and influence people written by a Dale Carnegie. And I would say Dale Carnegie is the Uber in terms of business and personal relationships. And one of the keys is, and that the driver for it is that people are not interested in you interested in themselves. So if you become interested in them, they're gonna really like you. Right? And right. And so we all love to be acknowledged for things. And we, we like it when people remember, you know, the names of our children or our dogs or what our pets or whatever, but they show interest in us. It's an instant. It makes us instantly like them.
SHS: 24:05 And so it's a, um, while it's, we don't want to make it callous and formulized and, or if I do this, I'm going to, you know, get that. I mean I don't think that's the intent and even the title, I mean this book was written 60 years ago, how to win friends and influence people.
MP: 24:25 It sounds really kind of callous, but the basis of the book is just interested in people and do your due diligence to make sure there's, you have a system in place to be able to remember these things and that's what you've done. You've put a system in place to remember things about people and you get satisfaction from it and I guarantee the people in your life get satisfaction, great satisfaction from it because they, you're probably, you know, much loved in your both family and business friendships right now. I'd really be interested to know how that relates back to your philosophies around how you manage your staff. I mean this is, that's my other relationships, right? What's that like and what, what is your environment like?
SHS: 25:03 Yeah, we as a staff, we have two-holiday parties or we have two parties through in the, during the year. And then we also, I also try to keep in touch with all this stuff. So at any given point in time, there's probably five people working for me and three of them or are at clients' offices. So pretty much every day I'm texting everybody. I go and look at the calendar in the morning. So between sort of eight and nine 30 I look at the calendar, see where pipe people are thinking of things that might be happening in those situations and, and I'll, everybody will get it. Everybody that's not with me for the day gets a text saying, oh I hope things go well, it's so and so's. And, and then it'll ask them a question either about their personal life, about maybe about their weekend or it'll say something about, oh did such and such happen with the client.
SHS: 25:59 If we were anticipating that something might be going on at the clients. And then so I'm getting texts back and I, so I keep track of the people that aren't here by texting. Also emails too, I find we liked the texts because they're a bit more immediate. And then I have a weekly check-in phone call with at least one or two staff for about an hour. And then there are the people that are in my office. So every day there's pretty much two people in my office as well. And we were, were working hard during the day, but um, we, we do try to, you know, we're having conversations about what people are doing on the weekend and, and their kids and their family members and you know, sports they might be playing or movies they might be saying stuff like that. You know, I'm trying to keep it friendly. I'm trying to put some humor into the, into our work day as well.
MP: 26:53 Hmm. It's a lot on, on your plate. You know, I think the listener listening right now can get a sense of, yeah, there's, you know, wherever they are in their business, you know, to look at where you're at and the things that you're taking on and the things that you're doing. It must at time get stressful for you.
SHS: 27:13 It does. It does. But, but I think being a parent is way harder. So I am not a parent, but I feel really grateful because having a business has given me a few of the, a few of the things involved in being a parent. Like I, I nurture people, I jump in and emergencies, anytime anyone has a problem that can't be, you know, if I can't get someone else to solve it for me, I'm, I'm jumping in and dealing with it. And, um, so it makes me, it makes me realize how much, um, how much parents do, I mean I, I see my brother and my friends and cousins and stuff and what they do being parents and I feel like having a small business has a small piece of it.
MP: 28:01 Yeah. I've, it's absolutely, it is, it is a, a child in, in a, in a way, uh, that needs nurturing and care.
SHS: 28:09 Yeah. Yeah. And you spend a long time at it. I'm going to spend probably 20 years audit or a bit more [inaudible]. The business is going to echo all the effort that I've put into it. It's everything that I do is going to show in what gets produced out of this thing. And there are lots of people helping me as well. So..
MP: 28:29 That's right. It's a, it takes a, I know there's another saying it takes a community to raise a, a child I think is the saying. Right. And so, uh, I think the more you look at it that way, it's actually a very healthy way of looking at it from the standpoint of is not just you and it's not just the rewards. You know, you put x in and expect y out. It's not like that. It's these are all the variables that we're putting into this love, care, passion, collaboration and we're doing it. And you are, you're doing it with all these different people. It is a family, right? That's the, yeah. I really get from you. Like you're running your business is that it is your family and, and you're raising it like your family and not just the business itself, but the other stakeholders, the customers, the referral partners. You know, the, anybody who's involved in your business is part of that family and you treat it that way. You treat it with great care and respect and guess what? It's going to give that back to you, right.
SHS: 29:34 Most of the time. Yeah. Yeah. I, those kids grow up to not do that. Right. So you're going to have some bad things happen to and not or nicely like bad, but not as pleasant things happen. Yes.
MP: 29:55 So on that note, when things that are not pleasant happened for you, how do you deal with that?
SHS: 30:00 Um, well I usually talk things over with either my husband or my administrators, Sandra, they're my take two key people in terms of, cause they know all the ins and outs of what's going on with the clients and how I'm selling services and how the business is being run. So they would be my key people. But if something, if a situation comes up with a client, I'm also talking with the primary bookkeeper at that client to get their input. And sometimes I'm called into to solve some, some issues that come up where the client comes to me rather than their primary bookkeeper. But then I will try to share that situation with the primary bookkeeper and I'll try to also if there are any other resources within that client's staff that I think could get involved and help deal with the issue, I will try to do that.
SHS: 30:52 Um, if there are any other people, you know, things come up. But what, what's coming up right now a lot is I have a couple of customers who are going through separations and divorces and we're having to do a lot of, uh, extra work around valuing their businesses for their spouses, lawyers. And um, so that's happened. I have a couple of, I have a lady who's winding down business because she's, she's getting older and her sister's husband just had a major, uh, incident in his health. So there are always things happening that I, that I get involved with. And I try to bring as many people to the table as I can. I try to break it into tasks and steps so that it can be delegated and approach like a bit of a project. So it's not like, oh my goodness, we have to solve everything that tonight.
MP: 31:45 And, and so your lots, lots going on and you could just, I can, I can hear from just those few things. There are lots of new things happening, very complex things that are occurring in your business and, and it's pretty big business. And so that must be stressful for you at times. How do you deal with stress?
SHS: 32:06 Um, I go to yoga. Yoga is super important to me. I have to go at least two times a week. So one of the Times is during the week and another is on the weekend. I try to make it a second-weekday yoga class. It's either at five or six 30. It's down the street. Um, that's just amazing. Yoga is amazing because of breathing and also physical fitness. And then I, I try to see my friends and family as often as I can is another stress reliever. And then also just eating well. And also reading books in the bathtub. Um, those are the big things that I do.
MP: 32:43 Okay. That's awesome. I love that. So, uh, just, just the sound of it sounds extremely relaxing, but it's one of those things that you would see in a movie or something, you know, the bubbles and the candles and a buck and, yeah, that's, that's where you're going when, you know, the pressures on to unpack it a little bit. And I, I love actually the Yoga I've been thinking about. I used to do yoga and rather regularly, and I moved away from it and I haven't been doing it. And I, I think it's, for me, I'm inspired actually to get back into it just after listening to you talk a little bit about it.
SHS: 33:18 That's great. Yeah. I love it.
MP: 33:22 Yeah. Amazing for it is, it's amazing for your fitness and it's amazing for relaxation and we are better at everything when we are more relaxed and centered. So, yeah. Yeah. I'm going to take that on for myself.
MP: 33:39 Yeah. Funny you mentioned how to win friends and influence people. Um, that, yeah, I did pick up that book. They actually turned it into a Broadway show with, um, with the guy who played Harry Potter. Now I'm not going to remember his name, Daniel Radcliffe. They had in New York City when I got married. Uh, when was it six years ago that show was playing on Broadway in New York City and I saw it and Daniel Radcliffe was so amazing. Such an amazing performer, dancer, actor, Singer. Yes. So that's, that's what you when you mentioned it, it brought back a lot of happy memories for me.
MP: 34:19 I am trying to figure out how they made that book into a movie or into a, a Broadway play. So I am interested, I'm going to be googling that after this episode because I read that book. Oh boy. It's probably, it's probably 25, 30 years ago now that I read the book. And, and it was, it was, it's definitely if you haven't read the book listener, it's one that should be on the reading list. It is dated. There are some things in there that maybe you could use a refresh and maybe there are refreshed versions of it, but read it with a, with that in mind. And there's absolute gold as you can hear from Siobhans's explanation and some of the things she's doing. There's, there's gold in there. And if you can get to the Broadway place, sounds like it's a doozy, but I'm sure Radcliffe brought it to life with his acting skills. But, uh, this has been great. Chavonne is there any other tips or thoughts that you'd like to share with the community before we end off this episode?
SHS: 35:17 I don't think so. I think, um, yeah, I think we've, we've covered the gist of what I do that helped that I think. I think building relationships really helps. I mean, it certainly helps cushion the blow hose. Um, and it makes my day more fun to these friendships, um, and, and friendly acquaintance relationships that I have with the clients. I enjoy being involved, involved in people's lives and seeing them unfold and it's very gratifying.
MP: 35:50 Beautiful. And I think that's, that's why you're so successful. You care about people. And, uh, it's, it's one of the bottom lines that we say that in order to be a successful bookkeeper, you must empower business owners and that's in order to do that, you have to be, be passionate about what you do. You have to be passionate about helping them be more successful and uh, and you're clearly doing that. And so thank you for that. On behalf of The entire Successful Bookkeeper Community, I want to thank you for taking this time out of your busy schedule to spend it here with us on this podcast.
SHS: 36:30 Thank you, Michael. I thank you very much for the invitation. It was a pleasure.
MP: 36:34 Excellent. And we'll put links and whatnot. If there are people that want to get in touch with you or connect with you online, we'll put those links into the show notes as well.
SHS: 36:44 Absolutely, Yep. That's great.
MP: 36:46 That's great. Well, that wraps up another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. To learn more about today's wonderful guests and to get access to all sorts of valuable free business-building resources. You can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com until next time,
MP: 37:00 goodbye.
