Fear.
Your bookkeeping clients have it.
They're always frightened or worried about something especially the survival of their business.
When incorporating new software (ie: cloud-based or otherwise) into your bookkeeping services, this may also be scary for them since it's their money you're working with.
Our guest today, Jan Haugo, who is the CEO of the Institute of Certified Bookkeepers (ICB) USA, sees a great leadership opportunity for you, the bookkeeper, when it comes to learning and informing your clients about the new technology you'll use, so you can help grow their business and become their trusted advisor.
During this interview, you'll learn...
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The importance of testing new software first for effectiveness before incorporating it with your services
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Why you should confidently detail what benefits this new technology will do for your customers
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Why you must reassure and offer continuously support for your clients during this transition
To learn more about Jan, visit this link.
To contact Jan via Twitter, click here.
To check out ICB USA, explore here.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
Michael Palmer: 01:06 Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. I am your host, Michael Palmer, and today is going to be an amazing episode. Our guest is the CEO of IC, B u s a. If you're not familiar with the ICB, it is the Institute of certified bookkeepers, which has become the largest bookkeeping institute in the world. Jan Haugo runs the American arm. And I'm so happy she's on the show. Thank you for being here.
Jan Haugo: 01:34 Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and I'm so excited to talk to more bookkeepers.
MP: 01:40 Yeah. And this is a, this is it. And your whole organization is an advocate for bookkeepers. So I think it's just perfect to have you on and, uh, to lead a Stan, can you tell us a little bit of your career journey and who you are leading up to where you are now leading the American arm of the Institute of Certified bookkeepers?
JH: 02:01 Sure, absolutely. Thanks. Um, so I, uh, I own my own bookkeeping firm for about 20 years. Um, the past seven I've been virtual and the paper was, so that was definitely a bit ahead of the curve. I've been an early adopter of technology and that was really due to the influence of Intuit. In 2010 I was appointed to their accountants council and I was very privileged to have the insight and participate in the fantastic and incredible changes that were about to happen in our industry. Um, from there I was appointed to the intuit trainer writer network and began researching and writing on third party apps and integrations and just really brought that into my firm and really started trying to get that out to the word out to other bookkeepers. And as I began to see the change, I moved my firm and started to test everything inside of us.
JH: 02:52 So I wasn't really going to promote anything that I didn't have a great understanding of. Um, the thought was is if I could this and help my clients and staff, then I can go out and help other bookkeepers. Um, I attended conferences left and right and began to grow my network of friends across the country and really started envisioning what they needed in terms of helping, you know, they get to the cloud as well as get their clients to the cloud. And that's kind of where I am right now in terms of how I kind of grew up with this baby of technology and bookkeeping.
MP: 03:26 Wow. Phenomenal. Such, such an exciting journey, I would say in terms of your way out of the curve. I think thinking seven years ago and now here you are bringing all of your knowledge to an industry that I think really is hungry for it.
JH: 03:43 Absolutely. And you can see that with the numbers of increasing subscriptions with all of the SAS based products, even the third party apps, there's just a tremendous growth. That's the way that everything's going. And you know, I think sometimes the clients push us into it, but overall I think that the bookkeeper's, they're the feet on the ground. Those are the ones that are, they're adopting the technology and, and they're realizing that it's saving them time, energy, and efforts in their businesses. And um, as they get that enlightenment that I call it, um, they will start to adopt faster.
MP: 04:16 It really is enlightenment and I've seen that men happen. It's just phenomenal actually to hear, just in the last couple of years, people go from being completely against it to literally light bulb going off and going, oh, maybe, maybe this isn't so bad. And then being a total advocate for it. So it's exciting. You know, I used to work for salesforce.com which is one of the world's largest software as a service. You mentioned saffs and SAS is software as a service. And so salesforce, their founder, Mark Benioff, he has led this campaign, the end of software. And he used to always talk about the fact that he is bringing power into the hands of small businesses because of the technology that's available today for small businesses. It was not even 10 15 years ago. It would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to use the type of technology that gives these people the inf efficiencies and the gains and their business.
MP: 05:11 It's such a great time to be in small business, uh, and even better be a time where you're our, our audience is helping small business, small business owners, helping small business owners. So taking that enlightenment to the market and helping these small business owners that might not even know about it is fantastic. And you, your history has a lot of that in it. Tell us a little bit about what you've seen in this last seven years of being in the cloud. How you, how you've helped some of these small businesses, business owners basically benefit from being virtual?
JH: 05:46 Yeah, well that's a great question. So, um, you know, it was really tough as you said, to really get people's light bulbs to go off. And when I started this seven years ago, I was literally like macgyver think about it, you know, the technologies have improved so much. So I was, you know, grabbing my toothbrush and some duct tape and maybe a rubber band and trying to piece together what I envisioned it integrations to be. So when I found any type of software that had integration with another app or another accounting software, I just, I grabbed on and one of the first ones that I grabbed onto was cannon and smart vault. Smart Vault was my document storage management solution. It was secure, encrypted. And at the time everybody's concerns were, oh my gosh, am I s you know, all my documents and everything isn't safe in the cloud.
JH: 06:36 So I found the utmost security that I could at any time of document storage from, for the small business. And that was the way that I was going to really comfort them in that. And then canon scanners started integrating directly into smart vault. So at that point, I could put a canon scanner down, somebody could push a button, put their bills on, there was no bill.com back then. And when I had, and we brought that into our smart vault, we got a notification and my staff of bookkeepers and I would go ahead and work on that client's books. And it was just, it was really, you know, enabling us to move forward. But the thing was my clients were still scared and that was the biggest thing is how do you transition bookkeepers and, and other people. So I started to work with my clients.
JH: 07:27 I went out and I bought a bunch of $200 zero cannons canners and I took them to all my clients and I sat down and I said, here's the deal. We're going to make this better. We're going to be here for you and we're going to move you forward into the next generation and technologies. And I sat that Canon scanner down, I'd already precomputed it to go right into Smartvault. And they said all you have to do is push a button, put your receipts and your bills on here, push the button and let it go through. And I gave them that and it gave them my cell phone number and they said, your text, you call me anything you need and we will be there for you. We will take care of it. And they knew cannon because Canon is a well-renowned name in printing and um, vaccine and everything at the time.
JH: 08:07 So that's how we got my clients to move forward. And I had 100% adoption and that was amazing for me to see that they trusted me so much as the bookkeeper and that I was able to bring them technologies that help make them feel comfortable and then start to transition. So I took that story out to several bookkeepers and really just an, you know, help them understand that if you are there through the transition period and if you are there to help your clients adopt the technologies that you believe in, because it may not be smart vault in Canon for everybody, but it could be whatever that software is that you truly believe in, you trust, you are going to come through as competent, trusted advisors and they will follow you. And I have been able to work with so many wonderful our eyes and help, you know, helping them to transition their clients and grow their businesses. And that to me is just such a testimonial to the power of the bookkeeper and the voice of the bookkeeper and how you can really, you know, help your clients as well as help yourself a pro. And that to me is how I got this all going.
MP: 09:14 Well, I've been holding puffin, holding back a hell yeah, because that is an awesome story. That is such an awesome story of leadership and tenacity.
MP: 09:30 Really, you know, all the benefits. I'm just sitting here thinking, wow, you know, leadership to this business owner that's trying to, you know, trying to piece things together, trying to make their business work. And here you're walking in there with a box, a scanner, you know, investing in the business and it's like the calvary's come to save the day, which the perception of that, it's like how does a, how does a client ever question, you know, not having you on their team, right? So for we're, I imagine that your retention of your customers is extremely high because if I had someone that's watching my back like that, I'm never letting them go. I'm just going to trust them that they're going to do the great work with me, which is going to lead to all sorts of great benefits. So that is such a great story. And for the listeners today, it's to just to be thinking, you know, how can you be a leader like this in, in your, in your customer's lives.
JH: 10:25 Yeah, absolutely. And again, it's, you have to put yourself in their shoes and ultimately we are in their shoes because there's an entrepreneur or a solo preneur bookkeeper. We've got to do the same things. But we know our clients just does it as well as they know themselves. Right? We know their kids, we know where they go to school, we, you know, they don't know their wives. We know where they get their hair cut. I mean we, we know these intimate details. And the thing is, is we've got to use that as a power to go back to our clients and say, you trust me a lot to move forward. I'm going to be here for you. And that's one of the biggest things I think with this shift that everybody's so nervous about that. Yes, it is a scary time, but it's also a very fantastic time and a very great opportunity for bookkeepers to really move forward and take that and leverage it to get themselves in a better position and a trusted position for their clients. And like you said, there'll never let him go.
MP: 11:23 Never. And there's so much opportunity. I mean watching, you know, it was the same story back with salesforce. The people that we were talking to, this was early two thousand they, we were talking to them and they were like, oh, we can't have our data and the Internet at, you know, access and all of the similar concerns that people have and what, what's going to happen? We're going to outsource. We'll no longer have salespeople or service people. It's not like that at all. The ecosystem around it for businesses implementation and education and help understand data and all sorts of, you know, bringing new technology to space. I mean we're just at the beginning of it. I mean, there's going to be work for decades just sorting out how do we make this great. So I think I really have to echo what you're saying about this massive opportunity and it's going to be the people like you that, I mean, you're a pioneer. I mean you had like an ax and like a little camping stove on your back. I mean, we're talking early days here. People were probably like worried for you going off into the uncharted territory, but now we're, we're still early, but it's the people that pick up those, those camping lanterns in the ax and go out and, and maybe go into uncharted territory that will learn and be ahead of the curve and really take advantage of it.
JH: 12:37 Yes, absolutely. And again, I think the biggest thing is that bookkeepers are hearing this exactly what you said with the salesforce mind. Bookkeepers are going away, well keeper's going away. It's such a fantastic mantra right now that I think it puts fear instead of competence in bookkeepers and us at ICB, we need to switch that around. We need to provide resources for them to understand, no, this isn't going to happen. First off, ICB is going to be here to protect you and to protect what you stand for. And then secondly, we're going to help educate you and move you forward so that you have that lamp and that ax and everything that you need to move forward into developing your business. And we'll build that community. And that's truly what it's all about because the job isn't going away. As you said, there's going to be work for decades. Is it going to be the same job? Absolutely not. But it will be a bookkeeping job of some type, but you have to position yourself properly so that you are able to handle the shifts in the changes.
MP: 13:36 Absolutely. You're absolutely right. And, and I, I would say for the most part that while it can be daunting, once this dip in the toe, in the pool, it can be very exciting times as well. And I, I sort of say that with caution because I know, you know, it's not easy. Change is not easy for anyone, but just get your toe in there if you haven't already, and start to look at some of the apps and some of the things and the ICB like you mentioned, I think it is a great place to start. Places like that. And in Canada, we have the Institute of Professional Bookkeepers, which I know ICB has a good relationship with, uh, globally. But what I love about the ICB is that they are really forward thinkers, uh, and just looking and working the time that I've had forward thinkers and that's what's needed today.
MP: 14:25 It's what is coming tomorrow, what's, who are the people that are actually working on what's happening in the industry today? And so don't try and do this alone. Reach out to associations like, uh, the ICB and like the IPBC and find out and get help because there's so much happening. I mean, intuit is, is fantastic in terms of putting on events where there are education and training and so it's learning all of, but it's also learning that positioning of how to actually position to your customers why you're essential in their business. And for me, if I think about the work we do and, and a couple of, I have a couple of different businesses as a business owner, you know, my bookkeeper is, I really feel like she's a part of my family. It's like I couldn't survive without, or the way she treats everything we do is very sensitive. It's my money, it's our business. It's, you know, these are important things. So that education is extremely important to make sure that you have the same relationships with your customer as I do with my bookkeeper, which is she's essential. And she leads and she brings me new technology and she makes me feel like she's got my back.
JH: 15:32 Yep. Absolutely. And that is the role of the bookkeeper. They've got the back. And when I look at what you need in terms of your life, and it sounds so funny, you need a doctor, you need a great general practitioner, you need a dentist, right? You need a CPA. You may or may not need a lawyer depending on what you've got going. But you always need a bookkeeper. And those are the key people that kind of help keep you running in terms of being an individual who's moving forward in this, this world. And they're the surrounding companions, if you will, to compliment your life so that you've got your, all, all of the aspects of your life covered. And the bookkeeper's right there. And I truly believe that we're professionals. And what bothers me is that, well, you know, when I mentioned all of these people we get looked down on as, oh, we're just bookkeepers. But I, I'm very passionate about saying that we study hard, we work hard, we get our certification, we get our education. And this is not a fly by night type of person. A bookkeeper is someone who is very dedicated and very impassioned about the people they're working for and the services that they provide, they want to provide the best. Um, so they get CPA, they get their education, they stay current with the technology. And to me that is a professional, that's not an amateur.
MP: 16:52 Totally agree. Totally agree.
JH: 16:59 Completely undervalued. Uh, in terms of where that is today, but just like things are changing with technology, there are lots of forces at work to change the perception of what a bookkeeper really is a too small business. And I mean, I feel that myself, I mean, I'm an advocate. I love what they do. And I tell the story of my father who ran a small business and you know what? He was amazing at what he did. He was the technician. If you've read e-myth, he was a technician. He was an electrician, an amazing electrician studied. He had his masters, if you will, maybe even a Ph.D. level of electrical. He could work on airplanes, Riggs. He could work on hospitals, electro downs, like electrical, hydro dams. He, there was nothing, he did not know about his craft yet. He was terrible. The books and where he went to was his accountant and the accountant is the guy that wasn't what he needed.
JH: 17:56 He needed someone that could help them understand what all those numbers meant on a day to day, month to month basis. So that at the end of the year, the results were different. And so I think back, you know, this was 25 years ago, 30 years ago, when his business did not thrive. It was a bookkeeper who could have made a good book here. Great bookkeeper, could've made an incredible difference. So he could have just done the great work that he did and the bookkeeper would have handled and helped him bring that to more customers and help him, you know, make sure that the finances were right. So for me, it's deepened my heart because every time I help a bookkeeper, I know I'm helping my dad.
MP: 18:32 Oh, I love that story. No, that just almost brings me to tears. It's so true. I mean, truly it is. Having that initial person to help you know, guide and give you the direction that you need is so critical. And I think when you look here in the United States anyway, the failure rate of startup businesses is so extremely high. And the reason is is because almost everyone says, oh, I can do this. But the thing is you absolutely can do it. I'm not knocking anybody in terms of that. But that's not what you're trying to do. You want to do, you want to run your startup, you want to grow that baby and you have to have a support system. And that support system, you know, is that we'll keep her the person who says, well, you need to file your license here, you need to pay your taxes here. We need to, you know, go ahead and increase your sales here because your gross profit margin isn't enough. That is the person who's going to help make your business successful. And you know, I think people look at it as a cost, which it is. It is a cost. But if you look at it, it's an investment in your future and that's the way that, that bookkeepers need to be looked at and valued. They are investments in small businesses and futures.
JH: 19:45 Beautiful. Beautifully said. And I absolutely echo that. And I was just speaking with a woman this morning who works with lawyers and she works with a lot of lawyers just getting started. And you know, they, they try and do this work themselves thinking they're saving money. And I just, it's such a great example because you know, a lawyer gets paid a lot of money for their time, right? And yet they're trying to do bookkeeping. They're trying to figure out their finances. And it's like I told her as that you've got to every meeting you have with them, you have to help them see the light that this is the last thing they should be doing. Give it to somebody who can do a great job of it, not a mediocre job. And I'm going to say that. Sure, there are people that can do it. Okay, but you're not going to be able to bring the experience that a bookkeeper can bring the eyes on the books, the eyes on the health of the financials, like a bookkeeper. This is what they do. It's like saying, well, I could go, hey, listen, I can go and defend myself in court too. Right? But what if anybody ever does that? Now? Sure. It's maybe a bit of a, uh, a grand example. But listening is the job of our listeners, and it really is, you've got to believe in yourself and what you do. Just like Jan is talking about, believe in what you do, be a leader for what you do and, and go in with that message.
MP: 21:09 Absolutely. this has been such a great conversation. Let's talk more about the ICP USA and what you're doing there. Let's talk about how we had your CEO. If I, I hope I got the right globally. Gary Carter was on and we had a great conversation and after our conversation I said, listen, I really want to have Jan on the show. So tell me a little bit how you got involved with ICB and while now you're leading ICB USA.
JH: 21:35 Yup. Um, so again, you know, one of the outcomes of me trying to really build that knowledge about technology was attending conferences and um, just developing my network of friends. So I have fun. I'm so blessed to have so many friends and I truly call him friends because everyone is just so supportive around the country and around the world. And I've just met so many wonderful people when the ICB came and they were looking for someone to lead this charge for them, they started asking around and um, my name just popped up for them. Um, and several people recommended me for the job. So that's how they, they found me. I think it was kind of like they uncovered a rock and there I was.
MP: 22:20 Perfect. Well they found, they found someone. I think it really just in hearing your story today really you're well positioned to take what I think the industry needs in, in the United States, uh, forward with your, your background in virtual. I mean, it's so important. So now tell us a little bit about the history now of ICB USA. Gary did mention it a bit, but you're, you're relatively new into the marketplace.
JH: 22:47 Yup. We had a soft opening, uh, February of last year. So we are just crossing over into our first full official year.
MP: 22:56 Yeah. It's like a happy anniversary. One year anniversary.
JH: 22:59 It is, it's so exciting. So yeah. So why my job is to really develop the program in terms of what that looks like for the United States bookkeepers. And I think Gary had mentioned that we have icbs all over the country. And so what ICB tries to do is to come in and localize, um, the experience for the bookkeeper in that area. So I, CBL Australia has done this. Ireland's I'm the UK and now it's my job. So I am taking the concepts of what they have and then transforming them into what works here in the United States. And it's a bit of a different experience somewhat for the ICB USA then it might be in a different country, but we've got higher standards in terms of education. We have some great training providers and I'm always looking for more training providers and I'm working on developing out a network. So there are, there are great networks across the country and I'm working on talking to them saying, Hey, let's, let's work together and get ICB and there so that we can help grow your network as well as grow our ICB base in that area. And I actually have to say that we have a member in every state now. So I just think it's really fantastic.
MP: 24:14 That's exciting. And I think Gary said you're up around a thousand total in the United States. That number may have changed since we spoke, but that's really decent.
JH: 24:24 Yeah, I think for a year. I mean, although that's not, I'm not, you know, you want to go out and kill the world. I think, you know, slay it when you can. But um, yeah, I would love 10,000 members, but a thousand is very respectable. Um, given how large the United States is and how, I don't only just have to get, you know, members on board, I have to change the perception of what bookkeepers do and why this is relevant because I feel like Oprah, when I walk out there and you get a certification and you'll get a certification and you will get a certification because everybody is just so certification happy. But what makes us different is that you don't come in unless you take an exam. It's kind of like a placement exam. You go to college, we need to know where your skills are, how can we help you?
JH: 25:09 And then additionally, we'll, our standards are higher. I mean, I truly believe that the bookkeeper needs to really raise the standards of what their accounting education needs to be so that they can really interpret those books moving forward and create those relationships. And I get a lot of CPAs who say, well, I let this, you know, a lot of bookkeepers, excuse me, is saying that they let the CPAs handle some of this type of work. And, and I said, well that was the old way. The new way is no longer, you can do this and I have faith in you. So that's really what it's about is raising that standard. And then I hear, I'm very technology oriented, so I really tried to implement the technology and they can't move up in our program without having some type of certification on their software. Um, so zero sage, freshbooks, quickbooks, whatever that might be, they need to be certified in order to move up in the ICB USA course.
MP: 26:03 Fantastic.
JH: 26:09 Well you know, I think it's the one that really is, well there's a couple of things, but the one I really like is this whole concept of giving them what is going to be needed in terms of education and positioning to do the work that's new today. You know, technology is taking over some of that. And so what is it that they need to focus on? And, and some of those consultative approaches and, and, and analytics into a business owner's numbers is where they're going to need to go. And it's what the exciting thing is way more valuable perception when you start to talk about the actual numbers. So your an organization that's really driving that, I love the fact that you're certifying people before they join the group. It's kind of a, it keeps the WHO's in the group. It's like, you know, someone's done it, done a certification, you know that a little bit vetted, right?
JH: 26:59 You're not just going into a group of people that just decided to show up one day. There are people who care, they got skin in the game and that's what makes it valuable. And I love that. And so whenever I'm searching for things and looking for things, I'm looking for value. I'm looking for where people, I want to hang around people that are really serious about success. If I surround myself with people who are serious about success, guess what? It's only gonna help me be more successful.
MP: 27:20 Yup, absolutely. Beautiful. Jen, any other thing you'd like to share about ICB USA? And I, you know, obviously we're going to have links on, on our website to find out more and get involved, but is there anything else you'd like to mention?
JH: 27:41 Um, the biggest thing for me is that I want everyone to understand that I'm very approachable. You can reach out to me via literally every network out there, Twitter or Facebook, LinkedIn, um, it's all, you know, I'm very, very accessible. But the thing is is that I'm developing this program for American bookkeepers and for their needs. So I've already positioned several mentorships for bookkeepers and internships and things like this that, you know, our industry needs that might be different than the other countries. So if you see or you feel that there is something that the bookkeepers here in the United States need, shoot me a note. Let me know if you think that we're lacking. And again, we're still a startup so you know my resources have to be allocated appropriately, but that doesn't mean I can't put it on a task list and that we can't work towards it as a goal. And because this is ours, this is ICB USA and this is made and prepared, especially for the United States bookkeepers. But I really want to do a great job in terms of honoring them and respecting them and helping them grow for the future.
MP: 28:47 That's excellent. And it sounds like the number one thing to do is just to reach out to you and obviously through this conversation, I mean how can someone not think that you're approachable after this conversation and extremely generous and really switched on when it comes to the industry in the business and where things are going. So listeners, if you're listening to this podcast, you're serious about your success. This is something you're going to want to do is just click down. If you're on your iPhone or you're on your android, clicked down, hit that link. It's going to take you right to all of Jen's contact information and you can literally be chatting with Jan just by hitting the Twitter button here like instantly. So it's exciting the world that we're living in. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.
JH: 29:29 Thank you so much. I had a great time. It is incredible talking to you. I appreciate it.
MP: 29:34 Pleasure is all mine. That wraps another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast and what an excellent episode it was.
MP: 29:42 To learn more about today's guest and to get access to all sorts of valuable free business-building resources. You can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com until next time, goodbye.
