Most bookkeepers can't survive without it.
You probably have your “go to” software that helps you run your business.
Today's guest, Managing Director of K2E Canada Inc. and IPBC board member, Alan Salmon, who is Canada's leading analyst in the area of accounting technology, will open your mind with some different options you might have never considered before.
During this interview, you'll discover...
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3 tools that can dramatically increase your productivity and efficiency
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The fascinating results of a survey that reveal what the average bookkeeper earns per year and other details
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Tips on how to organize your day the night before to achieve optimal success
Update: Alan Salmon died peacefully on November 24th, 2020 with his wife Nancy at his side. You can read his obituary here.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION
Michael Palmer: 00:53 Welcome back to the Successful Bookkeeper podcast. I am your host, Michael Palmer, and today's guest is considered Canada's leading analyst in the area of accounting technology. Alan Salmon has been in the industry for over 27 years, working in general business management systems education, and really brings his experience of journalism to the industry. As a managing director of K K2 e, he is responsible for the Canadian operations of this international consulting group, which provides professional development and technology education for accountants across Canada and the United States. He really is considered a pillar in the bookkeeping community here in Canada, but as well internationally. Alan, welcome to the podcast.
Alan Salmon: 01:42 Good morning. Michael, I'm delighted to be here with you.
MP: 01:45 You know, Alan, I'd be surprised if the listeners didn't already know you or have already heard of you or heard you speak, but for those that don't, can you share how you became one of the leading thought leaders in the accounting professional space?
AS: 02:00 That's an interesting question. Michael and my life have been full of, uh, challenges that when I accepted them I had made a course change. I'm going to take you back to early 1979 when at that time I was director of continuing education at George Brown College and I was in my office on one evening, it was five 30 in the phone rang and this young woman said, Alan, you don't know me, but I'm the director of PD for CJ, Ontario and we're looking for someone that can present of course on public speaking to our members because it's now a requirement. Do you know of anybody? And I said, sure, that's something that I do in my spare time. So out of that came about two years of doing sessions with the CGAS. And then that young lady called me back and sitting and said, we're getting bombarded by vendors who want to explain our technology, meaning our computer technologies to our members.
AS: 03:11 And we're afraid that that will become a sales pitch as opposed to education. What can you do for us? So I sat down very quickly and said, okay, they need to know a little bit about VisiCalc. Most of your listeners will be too young to remember that and they need to know a little bit about word processing and they need to learn about the database, put together a one-day technology course. And from there I was into the technology game moving on again, a good friend of mine started the bottom line newspaper. That would be Gundy Jeffrey, because at the Ed time of the three designations really weren't talking to each other and Gundy thought there was a need for news that crossed the boundaries. And I always invited to be one of the first columnists for it. And I wrote for the bottom line for 22 years and that got me into the research. And out of that came about, wow, what am I up to? About 13 books, mostly on comparisons. So comparing one piece of software to the other. And then in 1999, I got involved with my k two partners in the USand got heavily into the teaching. So there, in a nutshell, is taking advantage of opportunities, Michael.
MP: 04:35 Yeah. And I really, I can hear inside of that, you know, over 27 years really just grabbing whatever opportunity was in front of you and really exploring it is I, you are an adventure. It really comes through. I know I've heard you speak and you've talked about the travel that you've, you know, you've traveled all over the world, but I can now just listening to you now, you know, it's that sense of adventure and curiosity that I think is enabled you to really explore and then bring that learning back to the people who can use it and benefit from it, which is, which is very interesting. Tell me a little bit about this travel and you know, you've traveled all over the world. How has your international travel impacted your view of the industry and the work you do?
AS: 05:25 Well, I want to come to you on that one from a different point of view.
MP: 05:29 Please.
AS: 05:30 Um, yesterday was the 19th anniversary of a blind date that I had with a Brunette and um, things went well. So in 2000, I proposed to her and she turned me down. Of course not, not many people proposed by email.
MP: 05:49 Oh boy.
AS: 05:51 So the fall, six months later I had to take her to Maui and do it right and out. That came to marriage. That has been really wonderful. And part of the things that Nancy and I did very early on was trying to do what most people do poorly and that strikes a life-work balance. And in my business at that time, whilst am still, April was a down month for obvious reasons. So we decided to take April off and travel the world and one of my dreams was to fly around the world. Yet. Nancy had no interest in that. So in 2003 we visited South America for two and a half weeks and Nancy flew home and I flew around the world. And while I was doing it, I was checking out sites for future longterm visits. And we continued that process right until I had my operation in 2012 so out of that came nine trips around the world and some amazing adventures in Europe and South Africa and Egypt in China and Australia and so on. So that was a case of really balancing life work. And I think we did it very well
AS: 07:14 by the sounds of it. You did nine times around the world.
MP: 07:25 That's extraordinary. so you're well-traveled, you, you've really carved a name for yourself in the industry and deepened your, your knowledge across technology and bit general business in all forms of the accounting profession, really from bookkeeping right up to cas and you're well respected in the industry. What's on your plate now? I mean it's like the, there's, there's, I'm curious what opportunity you're sinking your teeth into now.
AS: 07:54 Well, I should've retired 15 years ago. But here's another interesting thing, Michael. Uh, in the last 20 years, I don't think I have ever woken up in the morning and said, I don't want to do any work today. Then Dad has been a great source. So I'm continuing to change in 15 years after I should have retired. I have two new ventures, one that is now solid and one I will be launching in the next couple of months. And I'm sorry I can't talk about it, but my strength is excel in terms of actual technology and I think I've got as good a handle on excel as anyone in the industry. So we have a wonderful newsletter that goes out to over 10,000 bookkeepers and accountants and as you know with Annie, a newsletter subscription list, one of the tactics, how do you monetize that? So I had a brilliant insight a couple of years ago and said, well, why don't I sell excel webinars?
AS: 09:06 And I quickly got shut down by my friends who said, why would I buy your excel Webinar when I can get it for free on the web, back to the drawing board. So what we launched last October was a one hour noon hour eastern time mini Webinar where for 25 minutes I do what I call excel magic. And for the other 25 minutes, we introduce a product or a service that would be useful to bookkeepers and accountants and that has gone over like gangbusters. We currently have about 700 registered for each of those webinars and we're sold out to the end of the year.
MP: 09:51 Incredible.
AS: 09:52 So there, there is the answer to your question.
MP: 09:54 Yeah, no I love it. I love it. And it's just very entrepreneurial in terms of whilst you really understand that there's information and there's providing information but you've also looked at it from how to make a business of it and, and actually make it valuable to your businesses, which is, I mean I love the format. I think it's fantastic. We fought, we started this, I guess we could call it the pre conversation to this interview. We started talking about the major survey that you did with uh, for the IPBC, the Institute of professional bookkeepers and kind here in Canada and some really interesting metrics that came out of that. And I'd love to, you know, I was really intrigued by what you had said and I'd love our listeners to hear it as well. Can we talk about that?
AS: 10:41 We certainly can. So let's deal with who the bookkeepers are. 76 are self-employed, the remainder is working in the industry, not for profits and so on. Not Surprising, 76% are women. But here's an interesting metric. Bookkeeping is an aging population. 78% of the respondents are over the age of 45, 77% have a mature practice. They've been in business for more than six years. And the key, and it ties in with the move to the cloud, 56% of them spend less than 25% of their time at a client's office.
MP: 11:23 Wow.
AS: 11:24 So there are, there's a significant shift from onsite services to offsite and 80% of them, not surprisingly, run on base business.
MP: 11:33 Wow. And, and when you, you did the survey, this was a massive survey and I think you mentioned it was 200. How many pages was it?
AS: 11:42 Well, a report was 200 pages. There were 1600 responses, which gave it high credibility when you look at survey results.
MP: 11:52 Yeah. Incredible.
AS: 11:54 And so when you got all the data back and you've chewed through it, what did it tell you that from a bookkeeper that's listening right now, what should they be thinking about and putting their attention on based on your takeaways? Well, I've got to do a disclaimer here, Michael. Uh, as you may know, I am the director of IPBC, but one of the key things that came out of the survey was when we look at income and the median range across all of the respondents was in the area of 50 to 75,000 a year. IPBC certifies its members with a designation called the certified professional bookkeeper, CPB, and the sole practitioner member with a CPD earns on average 14% more than a nun member without a designation. 14%. Wow. No bookkeeping firm with IPBC members. And that would be with, with staff, earns an average of 22% annually. Then a nine I BBC member firm.
MP: 13:07 Phenomenal. Well,
MP: 13:13 I don't have to do any disclaimers. I am, I am not a board member and I will say we absolutely love the IPBC and the bookkeeper association. I mean, the IPBC isn't in every country and we have listeners all of the world. But Listener, if you are not part of an association and in Canada, really the number one association, I mean, you don't have to look very far. It is the IPBC. It's an incredible organization. You don't have to look very far if you're not in an association. If you don't belong to an association, I mean those, if those numbers are not glaring, come over here, sign, you know, open for business sign, you're going to love the business sign.
AS: 13:45 Then, uh, you're crazy. And so, I mean, I've seen it. I've been to now I think for the last year I've been to the annual conference, they're excellent. And I think Allen, my take on it is the reason why there they make more. And these are big numbers, right? 14% more as an individual, 22% more income as a business. And I think the reason is, is that they, they're surrounding themselves with people who are really serious about their success.
AS: 14:26 And I would agree with you on all of those statements, Michael.
MP: 14:30 Yeah. Big Part of this podcast is about educating and inspiring bookkeepers to do the great work that they do. And this is part of that education. And there's no, I, you know, I don't hold anything back when it comes to associations in my, my belief you have to belong to your industry. Whether you're a plumber, whether you're an electrician, if you are in business, you to be with your association because Your Association is what brings you education and what brings you confidence. It's what brings you like-mindedness. And it's the ones that belong to those associations that are more successful. So, you know, it's a bit of a soapbox I sometimes get up onto, but I, I don't mind doing it, especially the fact that you're on the show today and heavily involved. You haven't always been on the board though, Alan, right. Cause I know you've got back on the board recently. Um, you've done a lot of work for that organization over the last several years as well.
AS: 15:24 I came on the board as an advisor five years ago or four years ago and was elected to the board three years ago and re-elected, uh, last year. But I've been working with bookkeepers for 25 years. Any other stuff that I've been doing, for example, a was sage and with intuit. But let me again, uh, point to, to something that's, that I'm working on right now that ties in exactly with what you're doing. And that is, I'm developing a keynote that I will deliver three times and it's called learning is a lifetime activity. And I'm going to weave into that all the ways and means that I have learned, taught myself technology, et Cetera, over the last 27 years and I think that will prove interesting.
MP: 16:19 I think so. And it, it's really a propose with the conversation we've had and your history. I mean, learning is a lifetime adventure or say the title again learning is,
MP: 16:30 I haven't got it locked in. I think it's going to be learning as a never-ending road destination.
AS: 16:38 Yes, yes.
AS: 16:39 Playing with that now.
MP: 16:41 I like it and I made it based on this conversation so far. You're definitely equipped to deliver that and so let's go in that direction a little bit. You know, people are busy there, time, time-strapped. We constantly hear about people saying, we don't have enough time. You know, we're pulling our hair out over here. And how can the listeners get their mind around what it is they need to do to, to, to take in more information and become a lifetime learner like yourself?
AS: 17:12 Well, I'm going to go at it from two different perspectives, Michael. The first thing is before I crash every night in my mind, and I gotta admit that I don't write it down, I picked out the three things or the four things that I absolutely have to do tomorrow. And of course that's an ongoing thing and I make it a point very rarely do I not do those things.
MP: 17:38 And now you said you did that every night before you go to bed.
AS: 17:42 Yeah, that's my project plan.
MP: 17:44 Okay.
AS: 17:44 And then Nancy and I work out five years. We have five year set of goals and they're monetized. So we've got a five-year budget when we can pretty well know what our income will be. And we're starting to cut back a little bit on some of the expenses that we really don't need to apply. So there are two answers from the team of Alan and Nancy.
MP: 18:11 Yeah, I love it. Think about what the three to four things you need to do that must do to tomorrow and then have your five-year plan clear. And you know, and know where you're, you're headed. And certainly you're busy, you travel a lot, you do a lot of keynotes all over the world and so you make learning a priority, I would imagine.
AS: 18:33 Absolutely. The other thing that I'm about to do is I'm going to research the way people learn. I started out by, I wrote a dozen of my friends a couple of weeks ago and I said, what's your favorite method of learning blogs, videos, et Cetera, et cetera. And I got a whole bunch of different responses and it was, it would be impossible to categorize them. So sometime in the next three weeks, I'm going to send out a survey that asks more specific questions. Do you read newspapers? Do you read podcasts or sorry, listen to podcasts. Do you have a favorite blog? Do you have a favorite video? And that will be part of my keynotes and I will be publishing those results.
MP: 19:23 Beautiful. I love it.
MP: 19:32 So in terms of technology, you're a wizard at excel. Is there technology right now that you recommend bookkeepers spend time learning about?
AS: 19:45 Absolutely. My call, the obvious first one is I think they should focus on one accounting solution. And really learn it well. In fact, to get certified on it. So at the bookkeeping level lead deliberately leaving people out. You've got QuickBooks desktop, QuickBooks online, you've got sage 50 you've got sage one, you've got zero and maybe a little bit of cashew. So get really good at that. The second piece of technology is a Microsoft product. Didn't understand, I don't get paid for trying to sell software, which I'm not trying to do, but Microsoft now has an online service called office three 65 and in my opinion, and in the opinion of partners, every bookkeeper and accountant should be on office three 65 why? For one thing, you get the four up to date desktop versions. And notice I said desktop. These are not in the cloud and for every monthly license, and I think I'm paying 20 bucks a month for mine, I get five actual copies of excel.
AS: 21:05 So with $20 a month I'm running excel on two laptops, my Microsoft surface, my iPad, and my smartphone. What would it cost you to buy five licenses? But in addition, there is a little relatively unknown piece of office three 65 called SharePoint. And very, very few people either understand it or even know what it's there for. And I caught a fight SharePoint as being an online library. So let me give you an example of how we use it in k to five years ago and we run about 29 different courses, all of which have manuals that run from a hundred to 200 pages, someone and many cases me would edit the manual and then I would send copies to three or four people and in our firm and they would turn on comments, send it back to me. And before long we were just suffering for what I call version itis.
AS: 22:14 Which version is the correct one? So now with SharePoint, we have a folder up there for manuals. Everybody has access to it. All right, go up and I make the change and everybody instantly has access to it. So that's one asset of SharePoint. The second, yeah. The second is I can set up folders and there are good controls and security on SharePoint. So if you are a client of mine, Michael, I would set up a folder for you and all of the key documents, your tax forms, uh, your financial statements, any notes, any excel that I do for you would be in the Michael Folder and the only person that would have access to it would be me and you. Now I know a lot of people out there are paying a fair amount of money for that ability to host stuff in the sky for my 20 bucks a month.
AS: 23:15 I don't need any other software. Now when it comes to a third one, I've been wrestling with that ever since you sent me my cue notes. And I would say that the third piece that everyone should have is something to manage their time. Uh, not the build time because I'm a huge fan of, uh, not billing by the hour, but value billing. But you need to manage your time and there's a lot of different ways of doing that. There are some neat apps for doing that with Dan Quickbooks online. There are things like client track, tps software, Volcom and so on that get into more advanced time tracking and project planning. So I guess that's the three things that if I was going into bookkeeping or accountant, Heaven Forbid, um, I wouldn't want to have,
MP: 24:15 That's great. You know, it's interesting the Microsoft conversation and just the way the, I do the same thing I, the licensing and you know, couple of extra things to add to that. I mean, it just, just the sheer updates and always having the most, like you're paying that licensing fee monthly, but you're getting the very best, all the updates you never have to worry about, you know, are you using the most up to date versions of what you're using now the SharePoint's an interesting one and I want to look into that myself. So I think that's a bit of a value bomb that I'm going to make sure we highlight. People listened to and think about because for $20 a month and you've probably used one of the more advanced packages, people can start for less than that and dip their toe in the pool if they're not totally confident. The other thing is you can quit anytime, right? It's a, it's beautiful software is as a service. Uh, licensing it that way is, is uh, is brilliant for small business. I just love it.
AS: 25:10 Yeah. Let me do an add on there since you brought that up, Esq. Can do cancel any time. Understand that your data, and I'm now talking specifically about excel data. If I create a spreadsheet, it is saved not only on my device, in this case, my laptop, but it's also saved in the cloud on a piece of the office three 65, a technology called one drive. So if there's a problem, I've got it in the cloud and if I cancel, I've still got all of my data downstream. And again, an interesting side, Michael, if you are running outlook, which we all run and you're using the desktop version of outlook and you have a hard drive crash, you have lost all of your emails unless you're backing up your PSD for office three 65 outlook comes with co, what's called exchange. And Exchange means that your outlook is not only on your desktop but it's also in the cloud. So I tend to do dumb things. So twice in the last three years, I deleted my inbox.
MP: 26:32 Oh boy.
AS: 26:33 But guess what? It's still there in the cloud version. It took me about five minutes and I'm back in business. So there's another advantage of Office 365.
MP: 26:45 Yeah. In this day and age, there's just no, no way. Or whether you're a Mac user, PC user, if you're not using Microsoft suite, you're, you know, you're, it's crazy. And for the cost, it's a no brainer. I think that's a great, a great piece of advice. Um, I do want to ask a couple more questions and I know we're getting a little long on time, but, um, you've worked with bookkeepers, accountants all over the place, and one of the things that we like to talk about is building relationships with accountants, bookkeepers, uh, in terms of having strong relationships, what would you say there give your best advice around bookkeepers working with accountants?
AS: 27:25 Well, number one, let's make, let's come at it from two points of view. I'm a practicing bookkeeper with practice and a, I'm doing books for clients who also have accountants. Well, the first step there is obviously to talk to the accounting partner and say, are there any other clients that you'd like me to do the books for? Because bookkeeping is, it doesn't generate a lot of profit for accountants. So go to the source and ask. Now if I was just starting out, and even if I wasn't just starting out, I would very quickly do a Google search and build a database of all the accountants in my area. And I would knock on doors. That could be digitally by the way as opposed to physically.
MP: 28:17 Yes, absolutely.
AS: 28:18 Now when it comes to upgrading services or selling value add services, which both accountants and bookkeepers are starting to do now, the bookkeeper has the ground floor on that much to dismiss the dismay of some accountants because they're dealing with the clients all the time. The bookkeeper probably only deals with the client may be quarterly or maybe annually. An addition may be during tax season, so the really smart bookkeepers in this world, and I could name a couple, I'm going to name just one, Diane Mueller, the chair of IPBC as a program where she sends out every Monday morning a cash flow for all of our clients. Here's what you need to have in the bank this week and then she has a monthly online meeting for her clients to discuss issues and p doesn't talk a lot. She listens and if you listen carefully, you're going to pick up some needs. How do I do this? How do I do that in order that will come services and particularly training Michael,
AS: 29:33 That's another value bomb at one a big one. Big one.
MP: 29:44 Absolutely love that approach. Being in front of your clients and hearing their problems. I mean that's every salesperson's dream to just know what's going on inside of the mind of an entrepreneur in their heart. People to get in front of. Typically, I mean banks and investment companies, they, they, their mouth waters at being able to get in touch with the type of people, bookkeepers, yourself and, and those that are listening have direct access to because you are helping them keep more of their money in their bank. And so the way Diane's doing it is brilliant and she's actually going to be a guest on our, on our podcast in the next couple of weeks, which I'm excited. This will be a great lead-in that we can have a conversation with her about it. So there you have it, listeners. I mean that there is just an excellent, excellent piece of advice around working with accountants and what you can do to grow your business through working with both accountants and as well just being the lead person you're in front of them. Grow your practice through just being in front of your clients. I love that. Now Alan, before we end, you've got lots of stuff. You've mentioned a few things. Let's take a bit of a, a bit of time here to just lay out some resources that you have available that you'd love for your list or our listeners to go and take advantage of. You mentioned an email list. What, what do you got on?
AS: 31:08 Well I know in marketing mode, Michael, so I'll say that upfront. Let me focus on three things, but first is what we call the accounting technology seminar series. And this is a one-day seminar that we run in 15 cities from coast to coast. And would you believe this is the 25th anniversary Ford? It runs every October and it's just one day chart full of what's new and all of the chick, Donald Gees, tax accounting, you name it, they can get information about that on the webpage for www dot k to e. Dot. Ca and will show us in starting the 1st of May, we'll be marketing it. Second is the newsletter, that's a monthly newsletter that contains three excel tips in one-word tip. And the one that you get on the list for that if you're not on the list is again going to the homepage of www dot k to e. Dot c eight and sign up for it. And the third thing is the mini webinars, which are free. And again you'd go to the website. So there, in a nutshell, Michael is where they can get more information. And as the teaser, one of the things that I will do if people right be at Alan a t o n Ed k to e. Dot. Ca is I will send them 250 excel tips. And my David, my favorite tip is control. Yes. Do you know why?
MP: 32:55 Tell us,
AS: 32:56 cause that's the save command. And I do that a lot.
MP: 32:59 Hmm. No doubt. No doubt about it. Oh, even with autosave these days, so never enough time. Save it. Never enough times. Allen, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show. And I can, I can tell right now this, this is gonna be another one of those great episodes, sons of value bombs that you gave today. And for the listeners, if you just go, if you're on your smartphone, just tap on the little write up there. There'll be a link that will take you right to all of the links Allen's just mentioned. And as well, we'll have some notes on this episode for you to gather. But if you're not on Allen's list and getting his information, I mean, you're crazy for the amount of time he's going to be able to save you invaluable information that he's going to be able to give you over his, uh, 27 years of doing this. It's an absolute no brainer and we're just so grateful that you were able to be on our show.
AS: 33:55 It was a PR privilege.
MP: 33:57 Absolutely. Well, that wraps another episode of the successful bookkeeper podcast. To learn more about today's guest and what a great guest he's been and to get access to all sorts of valuable free business-building resources, you can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com until next time, goodbye.
