EP15: Vicki Fenn - How To Build Your Confidence Despite What Your Inner Voice Says

How confident are you?

If your answer is not very, you're not alone.

Many bookkeepers struggle with self-confidence for various reasons.

According to our guest, Vicki Fenn, who is an elite leadership and personal improvement coach, you don't have to.

During this interview, you'll learn...

  • How to boost your confidence to a level you've never had before

  • Why it's important to focus on your strengths to build you up

  • Why you should get excited about hearing “no's” from prospects

To find out more about Vicki, visit http://www.vickifenn.com/.


Michael Palmer: 01:05 Welcome back to the successful bookkeeper podcast. I am your host, Michael Palmer, and today we have another fantastic guest. Our guest is Vickie Fan and has over 30 years of experience as a leading-edge personal and leadership development coach. She is passionate about empowering women to expand their self-confidence and earn more money, working less hours. If you're a member of the Institute of Professional Bookkeepers of Canada, you probably recognize her name. She's spoken to IPBC audiences on occasion and has been very well received. Vicki, welcome to the successful bookkeeper podcast. 

Vicki Fenn: 01:42 Hi Michael. Thank you. 

MP: 01:43 Yeah, it's great to have you on. In fact, you were requested, our listeners said, hey, I know I heard Vicky and I'd love to have more of her on the podcast. So this is great to have, you know. Thank you. So first off, for our listeners, can you share a little bit of your backstory for those who may not have heard about you? 

VF: 02:02 Sure, I can. Yeah. Um, when I was in university, I was studying my business degree and I was halfway through and I was struggling a lot with my own self-confidence and sense of self-worth. I was really feeling lost and I felt very alone. I thought I was the only person on campus who felt the way that I did and fortunately was recommended to some personal development work by one of my brothers. And it really changed my life. And it was at that point that I thought, that's really what I want to do with my life. If I could help one person to change from the way I've been feeling to feeling better about themselves, then that's what I want to do with my life. So I finished off my business degree and pursued leadership development work to develop myself and was fortunate enough to have a partner at that time. 

VF: 02:52 And we did group programs together for women. And I honestly thought I had the best job in the world. It was, it was just amazing. And that morphed into one on one work. And then I was brought into organizations and work with leaders and executives and have circled back and I'm doing both now. So I'm back doing group programs for women. It's, it's definitely my passion and a team building, leadership development. It's all, it sounds like a lot of different things, but in the end, it really comes down to the same thing, which has a lot to do with what we're going to be talking about today. 

MP: 03:29 Yes. And it's, I, I'm excited for our listeners because it's like having their own personal coach working for them here on this, on this episode. So this is great. How would one of the people that you work with actually realize that they might need your help? 

VF: 03:45 That's excellent. That's a great question. It can kind of comes in a bunch of different ways. So if it's somebody that's working in a business, often it's recommended by their HR department. If there's some somebody that's been promoted and, uh, they're feeling a little in over their head. Often though it's, it's somebody, especially in my group work for women, it would be a woman who's in her life thinking, you know, I'm, I'm, I know I'm capable of more than I'm doing right now and I'm not satisfied to settle for the way my life is right now, regardless of what area of life it is. They're thinking about it. It might be, might be their own fitness and wellbeing. It might be relationships, it could be finances, could be career success. Something inside them says, I know, I know I'm capable of more and I want more for myself. 

MP: 04:41 Hmm. Yeah. Well, it's interesting that you mentioned too that some of the people, a person has recommended that they go and we know that bookkeepers, I mean, that's typically not going to happen because they're working by themselves, you know, when you're working by yourself, where, what do you see as being some of the risks that they might stay there for too long? I guess you could say might be one of those risks. So, you know, how, how does that tipping point come? How can, you know you've seen people struggle for years and years. How can you get that, that to happen more quickly where they say, you know what, I, I need to go and get more help. I am tired of the way things are. Is there a way to speed this up? 

VF: 05:22 Hmm. Yeah. Wow. That's a tough question to answer. I mean, all, all I can ever really relate back to is, is my own experience and what I've seen happen to the people that have come to work with me. So, uh, for me, um, a number of years ago, the coach that I had passed away and I was sort of coasting and, and I realized that there was no way I was going to achieve what I wanted to on my own. I knew that I could get up every morning with an idea of what I was gonna get done, but as soon as it got tough, I can be so easily distracted working from home by myself. And I really wanted more for myself. So I case I'm so clear that I can't do what I'm doing without a coach. See, I don't think anybody really can. 

VF: 06:10 I think that we are left on our own. We will listen to the voices in our head and I give up and talk ourselves out of what we really want over and over and over again. And you know, you asked how, how does a woman know? And I would say something in you perhaps listening to this today or reading an article or listening to someone else speak something inside you will stir and it will say, wow, this is really speaking to me. And you know, that's the voice that you might want to listen to a little bit more than the other voice, which is the one that doesn't do us a lot of good, and it's the one that has us quit and give up and sell out on ourselves and settle for less son. All those kinds of things. 

MP: 06:59 Yeah, I think, I think it is, and it was a bit of a curveball question because you know, how long does it take to bake a cake while it takes exactly the right, you know, 60 minutes, whatever it is. That's how long it takes to bake a cake. I guess I'm coming from where being a coach myself, I'm always curious as to how to speed up the process, which is not necessarily a good thing, but I think that's great advice to say, Hey, if something's stirring, let's stir it some more and actually go there and get to where you're gonna be happier. You're going to have been more fulfilled and you're going to have more of what you want in your life. So I think that's great advice. If you're listening right now, you know a person is thinking, Hey, I could be doing something different. I could be taking new actions that's take action sooner. You know, this, this idea of self-confidence. What do you think gives people more self-confidence? 

VF: 07:53 Yeah, it's such a great question and I've been exploring this for years. I've kind of taken on studying successful people in my business and I have the fortune to work with some very successful people in my coaching and a lot of people who would claim that they're not successful and they discover that they are. And the thing that I observed though, that people who move with that confidence, that there's a sense of faith, I guess that those things will work out and it isn't what we think. So on the outside looking in, when I used to look around and wish that I was like other people who seem to have a lot of confidence, I'd walk into a room and think like everybody else here is so much more confident than me. They seem confident talking to people they don't know and meeting people they don't know. 

VF: 08:40 And I mean, I still feel like that when I go into a crowd and I think, I don't know anyone here. I'd like to go home. I don't like it here. But, uh, I think that confidence, we, we've been fooled into thinking that it's something that it isn't. And I would say to all of you listening that you have confidence and you may have been fooled into things thinking it's going to look the way it looks on TV or the way you think it is for people around you that you think have more confidence than you and you're actually missing the boat because we get confidence by doing things that maybe we're not so sure we're going to succeed at. And then learning from it. So you either learn cause it worked and you do that again. But the best learning comes from when it doesn't work. 

VF: 09:28 And then you take that and you go, okay that didn't go so well. What can I do differently? And I think we have the concept that confidence means that you always succeed at what you're doing and you only look at, you know, you only look at the bright side. You only look at what you're good at and you know, I will tell you that I, I have in my office with me, you know, regularly people who you would say are hugely successful who doubt themselves and you would be so surprised to hear what they actually say to themselves because you see some of them on TV you hear some of them are quite well known and you, you would be amazed and shocked to discover that somebody that you may assume, I know it's just loaded with confidence dealt themselves as well. 

MP: 10:24 There was a quote that I heard a couple of years back that I think sums this up amazingly and I've held onto it ever since and say it often. Think about it often and it's this, people overestimate the capabilities of others and underestimate the capabilities of themselves. And that is what I found for myself and other people were all doing it. It's like the guy or the gal over there, they're better. They have it all together, they're happier, they're more secure, whatever it is. And it's like if we really got down to the brass tacks, none of that's true. It's just our perception. So, and, and I find this a lot with our clients, uh, a book of bookkeepers right there. Their biggest liability is just that little tiny bit of risk that they'll have to take in order to break through into a whole new life is just getting up enough confidence or enough courage to take that risk where it's like, hey, maybe I won't be successful at this. 

MP: 11:24 Or maybe I will fail. And you know, we'll figure out what happens after we go through that. If they just take that little bit, it's like a massive return on their, on their time and energy and, and they get more in their life by doing it. So I love what you're saying. It's, it's fantastic. And this is what this podcast is all about. We're, we're here to provide a venue where bookkeepers can listen, get inspired, learn new things, and take new actions to build a successful bookkeeping business. And success doesn't just mean money, it means happiness. It means whatever it is. And it's important to you is having that in your life. So let's, let's talk a little bit, let's get into some technical stuff lit or not technical so much, but let's get into some, some strategies and tactics that a listener could take to start to move in the direction that you've been talking about. Where should we start? For Key? 

VF: 12:19 Yeah. Great. Um, okay. I would say one of the places to start is to begin a practice of focusing on what you're doing. Well now, if you were to stop yourself periodically through the day, you'd probably notice that you're focusing a lot on what you haven't done well. And I, I'm guessing that all of you out there already know this, you're aware. Um, I can see the smiles on your faces if you're at the conference because we all know this. We know we so habitually focused on what we think we're not doing well and not on what we're doing well. And I say to people that if it worked to focus on where you're failing, I'd tell you to do it honestly. If that's what it took to be successful, go keep doing it. Awesome way to go. But it doesn't work. And I think, you know, it doesn't work because I think if you were to imagine yourself talking to a child, you know, you wouldn't talk to them the way you talk to yourself. 

VF: 13:21 You wouldn't do it because it doesn't work. And it's unkind. And yet we seem to have this level of acceptance to treat ourselves in a way that we would never treat somebody else. And the harshness of the words we say to ourselves. So my first tip is to really, you know, focus on what you're doing. Well, why? Because that's what works. I don't know if you've heard the quote before, but what you focus on expands. So if you continue to focus on where you're not confident, what you think you don't do well, where you think you failed, well, you'll get more of that if you focus on what you've done well and you begin a practice of acknowledging your successes every day. You know, I, I have a partner, I do this within the coaching program that I'm in and we talk on the phone every week and she'll say, how was your week been? And the first thing that wants to come out of my mouth is, oh, I didn't get much done, but you know, I've written it down. And so it forces me to go, actually, I got way more done than I thought that I did. So on, on our own, we will focus on what we didn't do. You have to be disciplined and discipline yourself to focus on what you do well because that's what works. 

MP: 14:37 Yes, I love that. And I, I, a friend of mine recently gave me a five-minute journal, which is writing down simply. It's very simple and I'm not a journaler so much. I always say, oh, I need to do more journaling and I don't, I haven't done it much in my life. Um, and, and I liked this cause it was just so simple. It was every day I spend like, you know, four or five minutes and it's what am I grateful for? What would make today great and daily affirmations? I am x, y, z. And you know, it, my days since doing this, my days have been more enjoyable, more productive and I feel I feel a heck of a lot better when I do it. And so I love where you're going with that. 

VF: 15:20 Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up because I was going to say that next to that you know actually right, have a journal, have something that you write, write it down in because that's what will train your brain to focus on the positive. So I'm saying to you, do something that's not natural. I'm saying focus on what you're doing. Well, now I'm saying you're going to have to do some work to help you focus on what you're doing well because you haven't trained your brain that way. And we actually have science now that supports everything that Michael just talked about that and it's about how the brain works. So we have neural pathways in the brain and some of them are very well developed for a lot of us. The really well-developed ones have a lot of negative things to say about us. So you have to train your brain to develop new neuropathways that say more positive things about yourself, your life and what's going on around you. The practice, Michael just spoke about his is a fantastic tool to start that process with. 

MP: 16:24 Yeah, it's, it really does. It has made a big difference for me and I highly recommend it and have a nice little journal that, that does this so eloquently is, is nice. It's called the five-minute journal, Bonnie Chan, I'm going to have her on the show. She's a really great relationship builder and networker and she, you know, she met me and she really had a good time working with me and she sent me this nice gift in the mail, which I thought was super nice of her first of all. But it's like a great networking tip, but that's for another show. So find something like that. It doesn't have to be like the five-minute journal, but just the book and start writing those down and we'll have those questions on the successful bookkeeper.com website where you can go and find out more about that. I would think, and perhaps Vicki, you could send us some links to things that you've used or, or that have worked for you as well that we could post, which would be great. So where do we go from here? What's the next step to building more self-confidence in our lives? 

VF: 17:25 Well, I'm, I'd say, I don't know if this is a step so much, but I think another thing that's really important to recognize is you weren't confident at one point because if you weren't, you never would have learned how to walk. So what happened? You know, you, we didn't come out this way. We didn't come out with self-doubt and self-criticism. That's not what it's like. Look, look around that t at two-year-olds. Look around at children, learning to walk, children learning to talk. Now they don't give up. When they mess up the first time, they don't even think of it as messing up. They just get up and they keep trying and to keep trying until it works. So something happened and you know, I don't think that it's helpful to look for who or what to blame. That's not where I'm going with this. It's more to recognize that you were confident at one point and now you're not. And so something happened that changed that and I'm going to propose what happened is you started to change the way you thought about yourself. And that's something to be really aware of, that the confidence is can be rediscovered because you had it before. 

MP: 18:43 It's, um, it's such an interesting topic and probably one that doesn't come into the minds of our audience that often. Uh, but we're actually just having a conversation with somebody recently about this. It's like all of these patterns that we have in our life today, we pick them up when we're very young people, right? Elementary school and earlier than that. And you know, kids are going through life and playing and skinning their knees and breaking an arm here and there, but they're there being courageous. They're exploring their living life and they're being bold. We all did it, it's children. But then we learn these things and we stopped doing it. So, you know, we can almost say it's like, well how in business in life, if we want to get more out of it, it's almost, we could say it's like, let's go get some more skin knees. What's that's gonna what's that gonna look like in our life? If we went out looking to maybe get scraped up and scratched up a little bit to change, change the way we think about ourselves and our businesses. 

VF: 19:42 Alright, I love what you're saying Michael, and it's so great. I think someone shared this quote with me this week. I can't remember if it was Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky. So one of them said, you know, the only baskets you don't get or goals you don't get, or the shots you don't take. And you know, we're so worried about making mistakes and looking bad and disappointing people and yet, you know, swinging out and taking risks and trying new things is really where, where you're going to get creative and find solutions for your clients too. So I love what you're talking about. And I would say, you know, another tip would be to, one thing you could do this week is take on trying, trying something new each day, even if it's a new food or a new way of communicating. 

MP: 20:27 Okay. 

VF: 20:28 Getting new clients is, somebody said to me, went to, why don't you play a game where you get on the phone and you know, get five no's. Because if there's a certain percentage of people that are gonna say no to any offer that you make, then go and get some nos. Because right after that there's going to be yeses. And it Kinda changed my thinking from dreading a no. And you know, being so disappointed and crest fall into like, oh, okay, there's one of the five knows nuts get four more because pretty soon the s's are going to start coming. And it just changed the way I was thinking about it. 

MP: 21:00 Yes. Love it. A lot of you were, you broke up a little bit there with the, our world wide web was glitching I think a bit, but I heard most of it but I just wanted to fill in some color around that. So what's yours and make sure I was on the right track, which is going out and collect nos from people. Maybe start that story from the start again Vicky cause we missed it. 

VF: 21:22 Sure. That's a, it was recommended to me once along. 

MP: 21:26 Yeah. 

VF: 21:27 The people that say no to me. So in, in a given day, if there's going to be, you know, 70% nose, 30% yeses, then get excited about a no, because you know, the more nos you get now the sooner the yeses are going to be coming around the corner. 

MP: 21:40 I love it. And you did break up a little bit there, but it's just how the web works. We'll clip a bit of that out, but you're absolutely bang on here and it's, it's almost, we want a yes from somebody. Let's say we're, we're looking for new business and we want to yes. And yet we're not taking action. Well, then what is it that we're actually thinking about? Or how are we relating to it? It's, it's we're afraid of getting a no, which would be disappointing. So this whole concept of deep disappointment is really an opportunity to embrace disappointment and be comfortable with disappointment because life is at times disappointing. I mean, you mentioned when Gretzky, you mentioned Michael Jordan, I'm not sure which one of those or who said which quote, but essentially they embraced disappointment their entire career because they, there's only one winner. 

VF: 22:40 And you know, the rest are losers, right? You're, if you're on a team, you're gonna win it. Are you going to lose it? So you have to be really comfortable with this appointment because you don't win every single game. So love the concept of collecting no's. Very powerful in terms of saying, hey, where are you trying to get to? Allow yourself to be disappointed. Take the risk and only good things can come from that because you might lose initially or you might lose an elusive street. But eventually you're going to get better at what you're doing and you're going to collect more yeses in doing that. I love it. It's a, and it's needed, right? Because bookkeepers, whilst they have lots of referrals that come to them, referrals are not always the best business out there because people are referring to your business. And if that's all that's coming in and you, while you're, you know, you might be in a position where you've got to take every customer that comes to you and we don't want every customer in the business we own. If you're going to build a successful business, we only want to have the best clients. We want clients who respect us, value we do and are willing to pay well for the work that we do. We're doing great work. We want a peak, be paid great. And so in order to get those kinds of clients, it will take risks. It will take disappointment going out there and battling for the best clients in the marketplace and collecting notes. A great exercise to take on Vicki. I love that. 

MP: 24:08 Yeah, and I think it's really important too to focus on, you know, what is the value that you bring to your customers? I know one of my clients, she said it so beautifully, she's an accountant and she said it really came to her that she really, really cares about people and that's what makes her so good at what she does. And if you look, you know each one of you for yourself, there's, there's something unique about you that has you bring value to the people who get to work with you. And if you look at success just based on how much money you make or how many clients you've had or what kind of car you drive or any of those external things, you're really going to miss the boat because you're a value in your success comes from your ability to share your gifts in the world and you have gifts, you have gifts to share, and your gifts are unique. 

VF: 25:01 And I think that confidence comes to us when we really allow ourselves to do those things that we really are good at, that we've been gifted in. I'll also tell all of you, all of you, I'm not gifted at bookkeeping. So there are people out there like me that need you and we need you because you're good at what you do. And it frees us up to do what we're good at. So keep getting out there, you know, keep providing the service that you provide. It's invaluable. It helps business people like me be able to focus on the areas I want to spend my time on and have the confidence that I'm doing it the right way. Cause you're giving me the numbers to support it. 

MP: 25:42 Yeah. For a fantastic message. And we speak that all the time, uh, with our clients and, and, and really it's, it's misunderstood or it's missed too often and that all of the people listening right now are more valuable than they think they are. And that's what has them get what they get in life. And so they end up working with less desirable clients and they get jaded perhaps and disappointed and they feel unvalued by their customer. And it's simply because that's what you're mirroring to the world. And so when, when we shift the tables here to look at like these exercises that, that Vicky's talking about today, you start to shift the tables. You value yourself more, you're happy more with who you are. You Fall in love with yourself and that will allow your natural, beautiful self to do all the best marketing in the world. You know, just let yourself be you and share your gifts and people will pay you very well for that. Uh, regardless, and this isn't a conversation just for bookkeepers, this is for every single person that's out in the world trying to make a difference or build a business or get their point or ideas across. That's what is at the core of their success. 

VF: 26:58 Yeah. Something else just came to mind, Michael as you were talking and it's that I came across this yesterday and I was talking to my husband about as well. Often business owners are, you know, very, uh, aggressive, assertive, uh, they have to be to produce the results they're producing so they can get a little gnarly sometimes. And if we're the kind of person that is a bit more sensitive, the way they communicate can deem harsh to us. And, and it's certainly important to recognize that people have different styles and if you can know what their style might be that way and not take it personally, it might make working with some of your clients who you may think are undesirable might give you some tools to actually be really successful working with those kinds of people. So, um, I also would say don't give up sometimes the work to be done if you've got a client that's difficult to work to be done is with yourself. 

MP: 27:54 All right, great. And I want to say it a little bit more about what you said because that is really quite a valuable conversation in selling and that your customers are the way that they are. And we had, Seth Goden was on our podcast, it's another podcast I do call the business of thought leadership. And he came on and he was talking about getting your message out and, and really understanding another person's narrative. And so what he meant by that was your narrative is the way you see the world. And it's the stories that you have about the world and what things are. So if someone's aggressive, it's like Gab a story about why somebody is aggressive and, and what the experience of working with an aggressive person. But what is the aggressive person's narrative? And if we're talking bookkeepers, we're talking about people who own businesses now to understand their narrative. 

MP: 28:50 You actually have a good opportunity as a bookkeeper to understand their narrative because you see what's going on with one of the most important pieces of someone's narrative, right? Which is finances, money, and owners like yourself? A person that owns a company and they have employees and they have responsibilities. And so you know where they're at financially, which can be an indicator of what's really going on in their life. How are they handling that stress? And so, if you can understand that narrative and you can help them with whatever it is that they're actually trying to get and do and, and succeed at, you're going to be extremely valuable in their eyes. And I think that part that you're saying about letting them have whatever way that they're being, obviously you have to maintain your own standards around what you, what you'll accept as, as a person's way of being and how they treat you. But the more you can understand where they're coming from, which is the most important piece because they don't care about anything else but themselves, just like we all do. If you can understand that and be able to help them with it and get them to achieve their narrative, you're going to be in a great position to ae, enjoy working with them more and be more valuable to them. 

VF: 30:07 Yeah, absolutely. And know that their frustration, you know, it's usually not really about you and you're talking out of what Michael said, cause you're talking to them about something that's very, a highly emotional topic called their money. And I work with the people often that you work for. So I'll tell you what they're thinking. They want you to show up as a leader and show them confidence in the area that you're an expert in because it's not the area they're experts in. And so what you may hear is, his frustration with you? I would, I would guess a lot of times its actual frustration on the topic and, and what Michael said is so true. It can be a very loaded topic if things aren't going well for them financially. You're dealing with somebody who's in some conflict in their own life and if you take their tone, their approach, their words personally, you know you're sunk and you can stand up to them and, and be the expert in, be confident that you're the expert in what you do that can make a world of difference in those relationships. 

MP: 31:21 Now you mentioned leadership and I think that's a really a great topic that we can perhaps end on. And so you're bang on around what they want is they want someone to come in and do, do the job and be a leader at that. Now, as a bookkeeper, they're probably thinking, I hope you're not thinking that. What I mean by that is come in and do the books. They don't want the books done. I don't care about the books they care about is what the books are telling them. The outcome. So the outcome that they're interested in is having information and understanding and certainty that what they're doing is working and that what will come in the future is more financial strength, more uh, liquidity, whatever it is. So how does one, and this is for you Vicky, how does one become more of a leader and show up more of a leader in an industry of bookkeepers that are not traditionally that way? 

VF: 32:21 Oh Great. That's such a great topic. I love this one. You are all leaders. So what do you think leadership has? I'll tell you, I have seen who, who I admire is the most brilliant leaders are extremely humble, their self, a facing. Sometimes there they listen more than they talk, you know, they're not what we might think of like the, you know, typical person who would be in leadership. You are a leader. A leader is somebody who's able to listen to what matters to somebody else who can own where they're gifted and bring that gift into the world. Who can say with confidence, you know, this is an area that I know this area. I don't know so much. So really good leaders are able to talk about what they're not good at. They don't pretend they're good at everything. So, you know, I say, be yourself, be yourself. Leadership is not something you fake it till you make it. Although I guess that's a whole other topic, you know, you are a leader. If you be a leader in your life as a woman, you lead your life. You are a leader. And showing up as a leader in the work that you do is really what the people you work for are, are hoping that they will get from you. 

MP: 33:43 Yeah, it's Michael Gerber. Uh, if you're listening right now, there's an episode by Michael Gerber who wrote the EMF. Uh, we had him on the podcast and he was talking about a, it's really valuable, it's a little bit dry, but it's a very valuable podcast episode to listen to. And one of the key things he said in that podcast was bookkeepers are invisible, they're invisible and owners don't value what bookkeepers do. And the reason they don't value the bookkeeper is that bookkeepers don't value what they do and understand the value of that. And so if you're showing up like the alternative is what would it be to be visible and this is what Vicky's talking about. And so Vicky, what can we leave our listeners with in terms of how do they, what's one step that they could take to start to be more visible and show up more as a leader for their customers? 

VF: 34:45 No, that your being hired because you do something that they can't do themselves. 

MP: 34:52 Okay. I like it. And I think t taking from the journaling conversation that we add, it's writing it down. Write down what it is that you believe they want, what it is that you do for them, and ask your customers, go in and ask your customers, how am I doing in this relationship with you and what would you like to see more of? Um, so that you fully understand your customer and uh, and what they need and where they're coming from in their narrative that they're living in. 

VF: 35:21 Yeah. And I think that what we're good at is often invisible to us too. So I really like what you're saying, Michael, about writing it down cause you, we don't even see our own gifts. It's just like the water that the fish swims and they don't even know they're in the water. You don't know what you're good at because it's what you've always done. And I think you have to take the time to really distinguish it as, as a unique gift. 

MP: 35:41 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So this has been great, Vickie. Any other tips or pieces of advice that you'd like to give the listeners and then as well share how people can get more information from you? Learn more about how to connect with you. 

VF: 35:56 Okay. Great. Yeah. Wow. That was okay. There's a whole bunch in what you just said there. 

MP: 36:01 Yeah, that's fine. I'm always stacking questions too much. Let's do, let's start with a couple of tips that you'd like, anything more you'd like to leave with people and then we'll go into the uh, the next bits. 

VF: 36:14 Okay. So I would say that your job right now than to build confidence is to be on the lookout for things you can do to empower yourself. Anything you can do and I call these bridging activities. They're the things that we do that take us from that negative conversation in our head, you know, into the one that we know that we have from time to time. That's way more positive. What are your bridging activities? It might be the journaling that Michael spoke about. Uh, it might not. One of my coaches used to say to me, you put your answering machine on and go play squash. Cause she knew that exercise really helped me get, get out of my head and get that in touch with who I was. So maybe you go for a walk, maybe you read a book, maybe you go play with a dog or a kid, but find those things that help you get returned to who you are and you're way better off to take a break and do something like that. Then to continue on a track of, you know, of putting yourself down and not feeling good about yourself. So that would be one thing you could do today. What were your other questions, Michael? 

MP: 37:15 How can we, how can people get more information from you and connect with you? 

VF: 37:19 Okay, well I have a website, it's Vicki, fem.com. So V, I, C, K, I and then the last name is f e n n.com and, there'll be some information there. Definitely how you can reach out to me. Please reach out to me. I love talking to women. I love talking to people who are committed to moving forward in their life and uh, we'd be happy to hear from you if today was useful or not or what might have been more helpful for you to hear. So please provide feedback that way as well if you'd like to. I have a group program for women that I run that's designed exactly for women to be able to recognize that they're not alone. You get one on one coaching and you get a group program where there's coaching calls every two weeks, and these women, you know, fall in love with each other. They find that they are very likeminded and it's an incredible environment to build your confidence. Something will build your confidence more than being with likeminded women. 

MP: 38:18 Oh, totally agree. Fantastic. We'll have links of course to all of this at Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com and just on the topic of coaching a, I mentioned earlier just now about my question, right? I stack questions all the time. I have a coach, I have a coach that I'm working with that's helping me be better at interviewing people on my podcasts. I've had coaches for when I did an iron man triathlon. I had a coach helping me be a better triathlete at swimming and running. I've had a coach that helped me when I was in the corporate world at managing people. How can I be a better manager? How can I be a better people leader? I've had a coach helping me in my personal life. How can I do more things, be better at what I do and actually live a life that I, I want to live? 

MP: 39:08 I've had coaches from all different walks of life and coaches from for different parts of my life and I'll probably always have coaches going forward in my life. And so it's such an honor to have you on Vicki as a fellow coach and the work that you do. And I think this audience is really just of bookkeepers are really just waking up to the power of coaching and what, you know, there are coaches out there that can help you with all sorts of things. And you've heard Vicky here talk today. She sounds like a wonderful person and her program sounds absolutely amazing. And the power of being associated with people who are moving in a direction that you want to go in is, is absolutely incredible. So I recommend you check out Vicki and what she's up to. And there's another great quote. I don't know if I've mentioned it on earlier podcasts, but I will absolutely love it. You will be the same person in five years from now, but for two things, the people you surround yourself with and the books you read, and that's a quote by Charlie, tremendous Jones, and it's isolated all the time with my clients and the people that I work with. So simple success is so simple. Hang out with people that are emulating where you want to be and who you want to be and put content into your mind that supports that. And Vicky, you've done that for us today.

VF: 40:29 Thank you, Michael. 

MP: 40:33 I would add to that list.

VF: 40:36 Yes. And get a coach and surround yourself with people who are, are, are doing this work.

MP: 40:42 Well Vicky, thank you so much for being on the successful bookkeeper podcast. This has been another great episode and it's been great having you. 

VF: 40:51 Thank you so much, Michael, and thanks to all, to all the listeners that obviously you're committed to your own success or you wouldn't have taken the time to listen to this, so get out there and do it. 

MP: 41:00 Absolutely. That wraps another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. You can find more information about Vicki and links to resources at Thesuccessfulbookkeeperpodcast.com

MP: 41:12 also, please subscribe to the show on iTunes. Leave us a review. We'd love to hear what you think of the show. Until next time, goodbye.