TSBK - Episode 128 - Stacey Brown Randall.png
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How important are referrals to your business?

Our guest, Stacey Brown Randall, who is a coach, author, and entrepreneur, cracked the code to overcoming the decades old advice that says “to receive referrals you must ask for them” then she perfected the art of self-maintaining clientele that consistently grows and drives revenue.

She was able to save more time, make more money and bring in new clients.

Today, she helps thousands of entrepreneurs accelerate their business growth through referral generation.

During this interview, you'll discover...

  • The importance of being memorable and meaningful

  • Why you need to know who your referral sources are

  • How to build a 1 year outreach plan

To learn more about Stacey, visit here.

To take the Referral Ninja Quiz, click here.

For her LinkedIn page, go here.

To buy her book, Generating Business Referrals Without Asking, click this link.


EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

Michael Palmer: 01:21 Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. I am your host, Michael Palmer, and today's show is going to be a great one. Our guest is a three-time entrepreneur and author of generating business referrals without asking a simple five-step plan to a referral explosion. She has perfected the art of building up a self-maintaining clientele that consistently grows and drives revenue. Stacey Brown Randall, welcome to the podcast.

Stacey Brown Randall: 01:47 Thank you so much Michael, for having me. I'm excited to be here.

MP: 01:52 While I think our listeners are excited because who wouldn't want a refer?

SBR: 01:55 Well, who wouldn't want a referral explosion? I kind of caught myself. They're thinking some people that are, you know, working really hard in their business already and don't have systems and processes in place might go, I don't want any par clients. Right? But, uh, that is true. And because at that point it's kind of a good problem to have if you have so many clients you can handle it, but it's a bad problem because nobody wants to live on that hamster wheel.

MP: 02:15 That's absolutely right. Now, before we get into the goal that you're going to share with us today, tell us a little bit about yourself and your business journey leading up to this point.

SBR: 02:33 Sure. So it's always interesting when I think about back when I was younger, what did I want to do when I wanted to grow up, you know, I was going to be the next Katie, correct. So I mean somebody had to replace her. Right. And I was, I was a broadcast journalism major in college and I think about where I am now, I'm like, wow, there is just a lot of portfolio things happening. I call my chronic career, the portfolio career. And the fact that I'm sitting here actually having this conversation with you and your audience today about do we generate referrals and how do we do that without asking actually all started with a business failure, which also was never in the plans. Right. So you know, I graduated from college and I did the corporate work thing. I had a couple of jobs that I worked in as I get recruited and moved my way up and have a background in sales and marketing and some in HR.

SBR: 03:16 And so I eventually, I come from a family of entrepreneurs. So I knew that if I could figure out a way to be an entrepreneur, I'd be a business owner. I was going to do it. So when I started my first business, it was an HR consulting firm and it was, if you looked at it from the outside looking in, you would have assumed it was pretty successful because I had clients like KPMG, a Coca Cola bottling, consolidated ally bank, Snyder's lance, the city of Charlotte. Like I had some very large name clients that I was doing work for. But when I looked back on that business and it would fail a couple of years later and I looked back on that business, I realized I worked too hard for every client that I did land. What I realized was, wow, when I never established was how do I touch business development every day?

SBR: 04:01 But the secret to it for me at least is in a way that I'm willing to do but will actually produce results. And I think that's what I never figured out what that first business was to get into a process and assistant and a routine of what would work for me, but would be something I was willing to work. And so I'm not going to cold call. I would prefer not to spend all my time cold emailing. So I did do a lot of networking for the business. I did land with my first company is my HR consulting firm. But you know, I, I think that fast forward right after that failure and now I've been running the business I have now for the last five years, I have three kids under 10. Like that same model was not going to work the way that I could have made it some what happened with that first business.

SBR: 04:45 Like I need more time to be able to do all the things that are important to me in life. Not just trying to build a business, but I could not have another business failure. I wanted to find success. And so when I looked back on, okay, what happened with the first business and then why did it fail? And I uncovered this business development gap that I had in my business. What I realized was, okay, well to be successful now under these new constraints that I have now that I have, you know, a couple of kids and we took custody of our nephew a couple of years ago. So we have that dynamic as well with our three kids. And so just kind of looking at my life, I was like, what's the easiest way to get business? And it was referrals. So I went researching how do I get referrals, what does this look like?

SBR: 05:24 And everybody and every piece of advice and every article and most every book said, we'll just go ask and asking for a referral. Felt like a cold call. I felt like I call it the cousin to a cold call is when you ask for a referral. And I just didn't want to do it. So starting my second business, I started a productivity and coaching practice business before I moved the model into what I have today. And when I started that business, what I realized was I do want referrals. I don't want to ask am I anomaly? And thinking that I can generate referrals without asking because most people hate it. And so I literally set out to figure out how to generate referrals without asking because I couldn't have another business failure and I needed to figure out a way to touch business development every day in a way that I would do it in referrals. Was the thing that I ultimately wanted. So I did it out of sheer necessity and now that I realized what this is information lots of people need, I've even shifted my business model to just focus on helping people through know my one on one coaching and some of my online platforms of what does this look like? To know how to generate referrals without asking what are the steps you need to put in place so that you too can have referrals that you don't have to ask for, who would not want to get referrals?

SBR: 06:33 Right? Everybody. Everybody should want that.

MP: 06:35 Hey everybody. I agree. And so when you started doing this and helping some of the people that you've helped actually do this, what of what have been their experience of life when you have referrals coming in without having to ask for them?

SBR: 06:51 Yeah, so it's interesting. When I started doing this for myself, I'd have, I just happened to be coaching small business owners, solo preneurs. That's kind of my, my niche market and a majority of them were actually business owners who were also parents. That was kind of the niche I focused on with my coaching practice. And so when I started, you know, raising my rates and decreasing the number of hours I had available to coach and I made eventually after a couple of years I had it down to where I was only coaching two days a week, multiple six figures and only working two days a week. And so when I got to that place, and actually as I was moving in that direction as every time I would raise my rates, my clients will be like, what are you doing? How are you growing so fast? So he's just started sharing what I was doing and the more I taught it to the people that are just my coaching clients at that time, that's when I really distilled it down to okay, there are five steps and here are the five steps.

SBR: 07:39 And then I just started watching as they implemented it. What was happening. Right. So like going through this process with a CPA who you know, had been a managing partner of his, you know, somewhat small CPA firm for since 1999 right. So he was not new to the business game and someone had said, you know what, I took Stacy's SMURF rural program. Maybe you should just check it out. And he was like, this is a sign and it could be better. And then he started learning about me a little bit more and then he kind of went through my program and he was like, oh my gosh, like I get to control the time I spend when it comes to trying to develop referral sources or spending time with people who refer me. And within this first three months on the program he had brought in like 20 referrals and he was like, I only need 40 or 50 new clients a year just to kind of help with the attrition they had on the back end.

SBR: 08:25 He was like, this was not expected. And so he was like, now I feel like I have more time back. And I think ultimately most people want referrals because it sounds like easy money coming in the door and it is because of referrals shows up. If you define it correctly, a referral shows up typically ready to buy. And just want you to solve their problem because somebody else said you can solve the problem, but what they truly realize on the backend is how much time it saves and how much you have that ability to really focus on business development a way you want to and that doesn't like, you know, drain you in terms of the time you have to spend. So and grey is the CPA. He's one of my favorite stories. I get to talk about one of my favorite students who went through the program. I actually talk about him in the book as well. But you know for him it was just like wow, yes it was great cause I got clients and I got them quickly and that was unexpected in those first couple of months. But ultimately the fact that I now control my time is the probably the most valuable thing that he learned going through the program.

MP: 09:30 Beautiful. Well, it sounds exciting. Let's, let's share with our audience how they can start getting referrals without asking.

SBR: 09:40 Absolutely. So what I'd love to do, Michael, is actually just make sure we're all on the same page for the definition of a referral. I always find, yeah, I always find that people, they, I think the term referral is so over diluted and our sales terminology today that I'll hear people say things like referral marketing or word of mouth referral or they'll name something as a referral. And it wasn't much more than a warm lead or an introduction. And so I can always tell that people really, when they come up to me, they're like, I get referrals. I just don't ever turn them into clients. Right? I'm always like, Gee, I don't know if you're defining this correctly. So I always tell folks, we always know, we all know what a cold lead is, right?

SBR: 10:17 I mean that is someone that you cold call and happens to take your call and says yes to a meeting, right? Or you call an email or you meet them at a trade show or whatever. They're just cold. A warm lead is where someone's usually told you to call somebody, but the person you're calling doesn't necessarily know your calling, right? Like, Hey, call so and so they need what you do, right? And sometimes they tell you you can use their name or not, but that's still just a warm lead. And then we have an introduction and word of mouth buzz and it's introduction, word of mouth buzz that I see me mostly interchangeable with referral. And those are three very different types of leads. So a referral has two things that an introduction in a word of mouth buzz is usually are almost always missing.

SBR: 10:55 So a referral has two important pieces, which is first there has to be a personal connection. I have to connect you to somebody else who needs your service. And I, and that connection is where I'm transferring the trust because for a referral to show up in their purest definition as ready to go because they know they have a need, not so price-sensitive because you've already established a value by somebody else who says you're great and trust, which is at the far end of the know, like and trust continuum closest to the money. Since they already trust you, they are typically easier to close as a potential new client. So for them to show up in that way, there has to be a personal connection to where the person who trusts you tells their person, they're the person who has the problem. Hey, you need to work with Michael because he will make this better for you.

SBR: 11:41 And they're like, okay, great. Because the ultimate reason why we want someone to tell us who to use if we just don't want to make a mistake and we certainly don't want, don't want to spend money, we don't have to be wasting. So we want someone to help us make that decision. The second thing that our referral has is a need identified. I actually need to be in solving or buying mode as a prospect to actually make the decision to spend money and take the time to hire you. So if I don't know I have a problem, you're never going to sell to me. If I don't want to solve my problem, even if I know about it, you're still not going to solve. Usually, I'm just, you know, I'm still not going to buy from you or hire you if I'm actually not in the solving mentality.

SBR: 12:20 And I think that's the important pieces is that when you're talking with our referral source, the only reason that referral source would refer someone to you is if that person said, yes, I probably do need a new bookkeeper or I don't have a bookkeeper, but who do I even start? Where do I even start? What does this process look like? Right? You need that person to transfer the trust and you also need them to provide to you someone who's actually ready to solve the problem that you as a service provider can solve. And word of mouth buzz and introduction or missing one or both. So when you think about an introduction, it's missing. There's no need identified, but I've definitely connected you usually over email. I typically say grow your network or get to know each other. Are you guys have a lot in common?

MP: 12:58 It's an introduction. That's great. It could be somebody down the road that may buy from you or just someone else in your network, but there's no needed edified and this is not, this is not a referred prospect meeting. And with word of mouth buzz, they've definitely identified a need, but they put you in the back seat instead of the front seat because I never connected you together so that you could follow up to schedule that first meeting. So a referral has personal connection and a need identified, which makes it different from a cold lead, warm lead introduction or word of mouth buzz experienced when they're not, when they've not been set up that way. And it kind of wastes everybody's time because you don't have those key components established it. So why, why bother? So how do you get, how do you get it into the situation where those are coming to you?

SBR: 13:49 In a perfect situation. So that's a great question because I always tell my students inside my program, and there's a particular scripts that we provide inside the program called the flip scripts. And that's the scripts that help you take somebody who may be introducing you and it's like trying to get them to flip into a referral. So there's two ways you can handle this. I find it and what I teach my students is go straight to the referral source and try to flip that into a referral by the language you use with a referral source. So for instance, if an a word of mouth buzz, if they told the person you're awesome and told you I told someone you're awesome, then say hey, what about connecting us so that I can follow up? Right? And there's specific language that you can use to make that work for your personality so you don't feel pushy.

SBR: 14:32 Because the number one thing my program does is focus on being genuine and authentic. So there's different language for different people in terms of what does it look like to the referral source. To flip that into a referral, but if you receive someone who has already come to you and it's like, ah, is this really a referral or we're just going to go meet for coffee and we don't really know why, then it's all in how you talk to the prospect and then you have to decide based on the language that we're for all sources used and that email connecting you is this one of those where I'm going to go more in a little bit more gently and I'm just going to say, hey, that'd be great to get together and learn more about your business and I, you know, look forward to sharing about my business, right?

SBR: 15:08 So you can take it the gingerly kind of approach or you can say, Hey, I'm so glad so-and-so referred us. Love to have a conversation to see if there's a way for us to work together. And so you just have to decide based on your personality. I prefer not to have to go once the introduction has been made. I prefer not to have to go to the prospect and try to flip them into thinking they're being referred to me. I prefer to go to the referral source and use language so that I get set up correctly because it's just easier that way. And the referral source will typically tell you, hey, this person, especially if you ask, hey, this person needs you, they just don't know it. Okay. My response on an email is different than if they say, oh, I totally, you're right, let me, let me tell them why I'm connecting you guys.

SBR: 15:54 I'm so that everybody's on the same page. So it really just depends on your relationship with the referral source and the language you use to kind of flip that before that connection has made so that you actually receive a referral. And once you kind of train your referral sources that I know that we're trained sounds kind of, you know, a little off. But the truth is is once you kind of get your referral sources and the habit of how to make that connection and identify that need, they typically just want that default mode of like, okay, what does this look like? Because it's never their job, their referral source. It's never their job to qualify your prospects to qualify who they're sending to you. But that doesn't mean you can't help them with just easier language that they can use when they're making that referral.

SBR: 16:35 Because remember, no referral is about you, right? I mean, Michael, it does not matter how awesome you are. No offer was about you. It is about me knowing somebody who has a problem and I want to help them and you just happen to be the best service provider for that and I know you'll take care of them. That's why I'm going to introduce you to my friend, my colleague, right? The person I knew at my networking event, that's why I'm going to introduce them to you or connect you to them. So you always going to have to keep those pieces in mind. But it typically always comes down to the language.

MP: 17:10 I like it a lot, you know, and I don't think training's a bad way of putting it. I think it's a great way of putting it because what you're doing is, is you're training people to provide great referrals set up properly so that nobody's time gets wasted and that they can actually get to the end result, which is they're doing it because they want to help people. If they weren't, then why would they do it? And so you know, so that's it. Help people help you and, and help do the good work that you do is fantastic. Now let's say our listener has a bunch of clients and they don't, you know, they do get referrals because I don't think there's many bookkeeping, bookkeeping business owners out there that have not had referrals. I mean, that's a very big part of growing the business. However, they, the, the referrals are likely coming at them without any activity that they've done. If they want it to stimulate business and get more referrals, how would you, how would you coach them into going out there and, and, and, uh, beating the bushes, if you will, to bring more referrals in?

SBR: 18:20 Sure. So what I would tell folks is, is that when you think about how you generate clients, you need to put your activities that you do in three buckets. The first bucket is that prospecting, right? So we all have a prospecting plan. It's that I need to eat tomorrow, plan where the activities I'm going to do and mentality I have when I'm in my prospecting mode or prospecting activities is that I'm hoping to go to that networking event and meet a couple of people who may want to have a conversation about doing work together or I'm going to cold call 15 people and hope that one of them answers the phone and says yes to a meeting, right? So that prospecting plan has its own set of activities. Then you have your marketing and your branding plan. And so that's your website, right? Maybe it's ads, maybe it's sponsorships of events, but it's the things you do knowing that you've got a long range perspective and you want people to be familiar with your brand and grow your reputation, right?

SBR: 19:08 And kind of just be seen as part of your social media that you do. So those are the different activities that make up the marketing and branding the plan. And then I tell folks to, but you need a third plan. And the third plan is your referral plan. And the reason why we have these three plans is because the mindset and the activities we do in each of these three plans are different. And we have to think different while we're in each of these three plans. So whereas in prospecting I'm thinking ham in sales mentality and I want someone to say yes to meeting with me. In marketing I'm in, I'm in a long range plan here and I know it and I just want to get my name out there and build my reputation and referral plan being the mindset is completely different. And what you do looks different.

SBR: 19:51 So I always tell folks, if you want to stimulate your referral generation, you really need to focus on having a referral generating plan, which is a one year plan that you build out and it should not be complicated, and it's definitely, you can build this on a shoestring budget, but it is a way for you to actually make sure that you are doing outreach or what inside the program, I call it touchpoints to the people who are your referral sources, and there's some specific pieces we focus on while we're building out this plan, right? So it's like a one year plan. You're going to be doing touch points throughout the year. That does not mean you have to do 12 touch points. You actually can do less than that because what we're focused on in this outreach of these touch points we do are to our referral sources or those that we want to be referral sources, is that what we're really focused in on is we're making sure that whatever we do is all about them.

SBR: 20:42 So you're not sending them anything with your logo on it because that's about you, right? You're not sending them to another educational seminar if that's all you do because they don't really want that. So what your outreach is, right is to your referral source as in terms of what they want. Your outreach is also be, or your touchpoint is also going to be memorable and meaningful. I call it minding our M&Ms Because if we do things that are memorable and meaningful, then we actually get to the third point, which is we stay top of mind, which means we move into the subconscious as well knowing that they are cared for by us, which means when they're in an opportunity to refer us, of course, they think about us and actually they think about us and don't really know it because we're in their subconscious because we're taking such good care of them.

SBR: 21:26 We let them know that we see you and we care about you and you cannot manipulate this practice or this process because people will see right through it. They know and that's why we don't do a ton of guests and there's not just one thing we do, but it's an outreach plan to let them know our referral sources. Hey, here's what it looks like for us, you know, to show you and to tell you that we care about you by being memorable and meaningful. Making it all about the referral sources and keeping US top of mind. We are not interested in keeping in touch. We are going to transcend that. And so I always felt that that's kind of like the meat and potatoes of what it looks like to generate referrals. You've got to know who your referral sources are and then you also have to build out a one year plan of outreach to them and then the other kind of secret sauce pieces.

SBR: 22:11 Then you have to know the language to sprinkle in so you can plant referral seeds that also gets them thinking about you in a referral mentality but you never ask. So it's just the use of language that lets them know why you care about them and that you're thankful for the referrals that they send you and there's dozens and dozens of scripts we talk about inside the program because there's lots of ways to plant seeds, but this just becomes a way that you think about business and becomes the language you start using throughout your business. And so that is ultimately what it looks like to truly take somebody and say, hey, let's create a referral generating plan. Let's do it for the right group of people. Let's do it in the right way and let's use the light language. And when that is happening and you're thanking for every referral received with a handwritten thank you note, those are the pieces together that really start to stimulate your referral growth.

MP: 23:07 Beautiful. Well touch points in terms of the bookkeeping audience that's listening right now, they have a wonderful opportunity which is checking in with their clients around their finances. They know there's always, there's mile all sorts of milestones throughout the entire year. So putting the plan together. A plan like this should be quite simple for them, but it's gotta be a plan. I love that. It's, if it's not planned out, then it'll just go by the lease side. So being memorable, being useful, I mean those touch points, you're there to help them be clear around their finances. You mentioned not asking and having language that would help, would help them know that they,

MP: 23:46 they could give a referral or can you give an example of what that might sound like?

SBR: 23:55 Sure, absolutely. So I always have a, I definitely have a number of bookkeepers. You've actually been through my program and I personally have a bookkeeper for my business. And so I always tell bookkeepers, I'm like, listen, one thing you have to think about is, is ideally who are your best referral sources? Because the truth is not all clients will refer you. Now the better job you do, building relationships and delivering on quality work, you can grow that percentage of clients who will offer you but let yourself off the hook that all clients are going to refer you and look for the 30% that well. But in addition to your clients, look for those who need your services to support their people. So as a business coach for a long time I was able to actually provide referrals to the bookkeeper I use because I worked with other small business owners and as a business coach we obviously talked about their finances and processes and what are you not getting to and what do you need to outsource.

SBR: 24:43 And so, you know, my bookkeeper was really, really smart on always making sure because I sent her referrals and I sent, well her company, I sent her a company referrals often because people, and I believed in her service cause I used it and that certainly helps. But you know, she always made sure right, to understand what it looked like to take care of me. Now, she also went through the course of my program. So she definitely knew what it looked like to take care of me. But it's the simple things you do. It doesn't need to cost a lot of money. And it's that way that you think about, okay, what is thinking in my bookkeeper's perspective? And I have a business coach, Stacey's my Stacy's a business coach, and she refers me what does she need? Right? What would be memorable and meaningful? What would keep me top of mind?

SBR: 25:26 What are those things that look like right? And so gifts is one of so many things you can do and should not be. You should never complete. You should never create a plan that's just gift based and you're going to spend way too much money. And B, it's gonna get routine after awhile. Not feel special. But my bookkeeper happens to know that I have an obsession with Starbucks. I gave up coke coca cola a while back, but I have not been able to kick my Starbucks habit. So after I had sent out a couple of referrals, they actually had like this Starbucks gift basket that they brought by my office. Now that's a one off and I, I tell people you don't have to do one off. You can group your referral sources together and do like, and I'll give an example but give like the same gift to a couple of people.

SBR: 26:08 But they just happen to know that I have an obsession with Starbucks. I talk about it on my podcast. I basically have coffee, I'd meet people at Starbucks, like I have a lot of conversations about, I mean I've already been twice today. You Michael, it's pretty bad. Um, and I don't even drink coffee and that's what makes it worse. And so they really gifted me with this beautiful, I think it was like someone kind of Christmas, Starbucks basket. Right. And I knew that that meant she's not trying to buy anything off of me. She knows me. She cares about me. She certainly didn't send me Dunkin donuts cause I never would go. I mean not that they have bad coffee, but I don't drink coffee. I need certain drink at Starbucks. And so by knowing me and me and then thanking me, right, she's just making sure I'm aware that they care.

SBR: 26:48 And it's when you care about somebody that I typically want to turn around and show you that I care back. That's just how God built us and how he designed us. And that's just kind of a human quality. Most though not all of us have. So you know, that's just one example from that perspective. Using it from the bookkeeper, kind of the reverse of what you know, what a bookkeeper did for me. But to give another example, and I'm only going to share another gift example only because I think it helps your audience visualize it better. But again, there are lots of different types of outreach and touch points that you can do that do not involve a gift at all. I mean, sometimes just a random thank you card letting them know how much you appreciate them and what they do for your business is just as impactful as a Starbucks gift card or Starbucks gift basket.

SBR: 27:32 But when you show up through what you do that you know and understand your referral sources, because remember we're not doing this for all your clients, we are not doing this for everybody in your network. We're talking about a smaller group of people. We're talking about the people who refer you now or you want to have referring you, right? We're talking about just doing stuff for them. Most of the people who go through my program, if they don't start out with a couple of dozen of those, that's their ultimate goal of where they're headed. We're not talking hundreds and hundreds, right? We're talking 12 to 20 maybe 30 depending on the volume you need. I have some insurance agents that are much higher than that, but that's just because property and casualty insurance is kind of a different animal and they're looking for more volume of referrals. But most folks, you know they have a dozen or two referral sources sending them multiple referrals and that's about what they can handle in a year.

SBR: 28:19 And so another example that I always like to share because I think you can visualize it even though it is a gift, is that I know that the majority of my top referral sources are working parents. They own businesses and their parents. And so I always recognize mother's Day and father's day and in recognizing mother's Day one you, this is a couple of years ago now, I actually sent a wonder woman water bottle to each of my referral sources. That was a mom and I sat on the card, never forget you are a hero. Happy Mother's Day, Stacy. And when you remove that card, there was nothing on that water bottle that reminded them of me at all. But Michael, do you think they forgot who sent them that water bottle?

MP: 29:03 No.

SBR: 29:04 Likely No. Right? Because it was memorable and meaningful and I met them right where they are like, hey, I see you.

SBR: 29:10 You are wonder woman. I know I walk in those shoes too. Right? And that doesn't mean I have things in common with all my referral sources. Definitely not. But I pay attention to understanding because we're not talking about hundreds. We're talking about dozens. I pay attention to who they are. I also don't necessarily think you have to do individual things for your referral sources. I'm pretty sure with the my bookkeeper who were, who gave me that special gift because I am a referral source to her. I'm probably, I don't know if I'm her top referral source, but I know I'm up there and I also know she's into my programs so she knows exactly what to do, but so from that perspective, it doesn't have to be individualized, but you do have to understand who your referral sources are and what do they need from you and then meet them and see them in that place and and really what everything I teach comes down to how we take care of them and then how we plant the right language so that you know what we're ultimately after from that outcome is more referrals.

MP: 30:03 Beautiful, excellent stuff. While you know what referrals are amazing. I love the idea of thanking people in creative ways for those referrals. And my goodness, we're already almost up on time. Is there anything that you'd like to end on to share with our audience?

SBR: 30:15 So just two quick things. The first thing I would say is that the first step you need to take when you finish listening to Michael and I today, the first step you need to take is go identify who are your referral sources. Go pull a list of your clients and figure out how they learned about you and create that list of who are the people who've referred you clients in the past. That is where you start this process of before you even create a referral generating plan is who are you creating a plan for? So step one is always make sure that you know who your referral sources are.

SBR: 30:50 And the second thing I would say is, remember if you do great work and you build good relationships and you had a sticky client experience, then you are definitely worthy of referrals, but you are not owed them. So you need to be perfect or did you do a little bit of work to be able to receive them?

MP: 31:10 Wonderful. That's great. And Stacy, if people wanted to learn more about you and your program, what would be the best way to do that? SBR: 31:20 Yep, so you can go to my website, which is Stacey Brown, randall.com and Stacy has an e, so Stacey brown, randall.com and I would encourage everyone to take the referral Ninja quiz that I have. You can actually get to it, to Stacey Brown, randall.com forward slash quiz. It's just nine questions that'll help you understand where you are in your ability to generate referrals. And then there's some resources that'll come to you after you take the quiz to help move you up to the next level where we're trying to get you to the master level. So that's just a great thing for people to kind of just test kind of where they are. And then, of course, there's information about my programs and the online programs and the one on one stuff that I do as well on the website.

MP: 31:50 Wonderful. Well. It's been our pleasure having you here. Thanks for being so generous with your time.

SBR: 31:58 Oh, my pleasure. Thank you, Michael.

MP: 32:01 And that wraps another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast to learn more about today's guests. Yeah,

MP: 32:07 and they get access to all sorts of valuable free business-building resources. You can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com until next time, goodbye.