EP126: Cindy Stradling - The Power of The Follow-Up Connection

Opportunity is waiting for you.

Sometimes you can access it by making a follow-up call, email or in-person meeting.But yet, not everyone does it.

It's a shame because not following up can prevent you from attracting new bookkeeping clients, potential business partners or other rewards you've been searching for.

Our returning guest is a master at following up.

Cindy Stradling is a resilience coach, accomplished speaker and author. She has the skills and system that helped her align with great partners throughout her career and business life.

She works with entrepreneurs, individuals and corporations (such as 3M Canada, Scotia McLeod and CIBC) to do what's needed to help them get where they need to go.

During this interview, you'll discover...

  • The importance of following up with your prospects

  • Steps in making a strong follow-up call

  • Why LinkedIn referrals are a trend you should investigate

To learn more about Cindy, visit here.

For her LinkedIn page, click here.

For her Twitter, go here.


Michael Palmer: 01:04 Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast, I am your host, Michael Palmer, and today's show is going to be an awesome one. We have a returning guest who is a resilience coach and an accomplished speaker and author and she is a very good friend of mine. She works with entrepreneurs, individuals, and corporations such as 3m Canada, Scotia, McLeod and CIBC to do what's needed personally to get where they need to go. Cindy Stradling, welcome back to the podcast.

Cindy Stradling: 01:38 Well, thank you so much, Michael. I'm so happy to be here. I love being on your show.

MP: 01:42 Well, I'm happier because I love having you and our listeners love having you two because you always give such great usable information and information that anybody can grab onto and use day to day to help them get more of what they want in their businesses.

CS: 02:02 That's fantastic. That's I, you know, when you say that, I stopped for a minute and I pause and I think about people that I've coached and I've worked with and things like that and I think at the end of the day, Michael, all of us, that's all we really want to be able to do is to, you know, share and to help other people be successful. I think that's what's really most important for me. And I think anybody who's in business for themselves and regardless whether it's bookkeeping or whatever it is, I think it's really important if they know their value, we've talked about this before and know what they can actually do for other people. There's a level of satisfaction that you just can't even buy that it just feels really good and it's motivating to have you keep going every day.

MP: 02:48 Yeah, absolutely. And, and you're one of those that I see out there not only growing your own business, but you also do a lot of work for women in business and you do that completely as part of one of your give backs to, to the community. Tell us a little bit about that for those that haven't heard about that program.

CS: 03:13 Well that's something that's a been a passion of mine because we've partnered with a company called one spark and it is a program specifically for women who come through abusive situations who want to start their own business. And so they put them through a program. It's a seven-week program and at the end they get a laptop, they have a business registered, they've got a marketing plan, they've got all the sort of the infrastructure that they need to be able to start their businesses. And then what we do is we provide them with a, a business coach for a year at no charge to help them go through those first, especially the first few, few months of where do you go, how do you get started? Because a lot of people are brand new for them and it's the most rewarding work a ball in my opinion, it's, you know, I get as much out of it as they do and sort of the colleagues that work with me.

MP: 04:06 Beautiful. Well, you know what that is making a difference in the world and those people are, are then able to make a better, bigger difference in their world. So it's people like you that we need more of. And I know there are lots of people out there that are doing great things. And so I just a little tip of the hat to, to use Cindy from, from our community for doing the work that you do there. But let's, let's get into how we're going to help our listeners have bigger, better businesses. And when I say bigger, better businesses, I don't mean talking about, you know, working harder and you know all that good stuff. I mean a business that you make more, you work less and you have a lot more fun doing it. And I think the theme today, Cindy, as we were chatting before we got into this interview is, is about followup following up with prospects really with anything in, in business. Why is that so important?

CS: 05:07 Well, you know, the one thing that I see from, from a lot of the people I coach and I do training with is they give up way too soon. So if this goes back is, I'll repeat myself probably three or four times in this call about you knowing your value and if you really got that you're helping your, your clients or your, your customers, then follow up just becomes a natural process because you really want to share with people. I'm gonna share really quick story. There was a company, a cold storage company that I called this a few years ago, but I called them and they said, I spoke to the director of HR and they, she said they had an in house program and that they never outsourced. Okay. So I put a follow up for a year down the road and I followed up again and it was the same lady and I got the same story and I put another followup for another and it was the new lady and she said my timing was perfect and that she felt that the program that they were running in house was not effective.

CS: 06:07 It was a little dated and she wanted to have an external provider committed, do some training for them. And as it turned out, one of my partners got six days of training as a result of that. And so if I had given up and took her word for it, uh, you know, the first time, then that opportunity would never have happened. It's not like it was the only thing that I did. It was like a constant. And I think you have to have many different ways to be able to do it because you have to be able to get people's attention. But I can see probably 85 to 90% of my business

CS: 06:40 has it been a direct result of staying in touch.

MP: 06:51 So I would imagine our listeners listening to this and feeling and, and even myself feeling like, yeah, okay, well they've said no, and yet I'm going to call back and say, why? No, you said no, but I'm back.

CS: 07:07 Well, I think you have to have an attitude of no only means no today.

MP: 07:10 How did you develop? No only means no today or you're always like that.

CS: 07:16 I just think it's me personally because a lot of people, I never understood rejection from the point that people would call somebody. Now I've cold called for years I called like for over 25 years and that was the way we got business was we picked up the phone and we cold called people. I still do it today. I warm them up with LinkedIn or social media or things like that, but I always still stay in touch and it's funny because I don't see how they're rejecting me personally because they don't even know me. I don't know. It never computed in my brain why people would take that as rejection because you don't know what's going on in someone else's world. I mean they could have been up all night with a sick baby. There could be just a meal and there's, timing is everything. So the key for me is that you stay top of mind.

CS: 08:07 We just landed the, we have a mutual friend I was sharing with you before the call that I had stayed in touch with this lady. We did business with her about three years ago and then they implemented SAP. So they all their money was going into training for, for their employees, for this new software program. And I just stayed in touch the whole time. And I have all these special emails that I've had created with my picture on them. And there's pictures of, you know, flowers and there's all different ones for different times of the year. And I just happened to send her one and she like within two hours she will be boxed. She says, your timing is perfect. We're looking at having x, y, z. And I introduced her to one of our partners and within a week he had the business.

MP: 08:50 Wow.

CS: 08:51 So if I hadn't stayed in touch, even though I knew they were doing all of that. And another thing too, when people lose business, this is another big thing, you know. So if you go out and you bid on something, it's really important to follow up that the person who won the business is able to satisfy them. Because sometimes they can't. Sometimes then you could go in as a secondary supplier or be a backup for them. That's right. I've done that many times when I used to work with rewards in that condition where we, we'd lose the RFP and I'd follow up in three months and say, how's it going? And then the other company's made mistakes or they've short shipped or they sent the wrong product. And I just say, you know what? We're right around the corner. I would give them, cause that was one of our benefits was we could do our manufacturing rate in house and if you need a backup supplier, and over two years, two years, when the contract was up, we won the whole business. But if I walked away and, and never followed up to see how things were going, they probably would never thought of me.

MP: 09:51 You're, you're absolutely right. And, and literally, just yesterday, there was this, this woman who attended one of our seminars about, uh, about our program, and she was really interested and, and really excited. And, and then she said, well, I'm gonna look at a couple other options though. And I said, okay, well, and, and you know, I'm a very good communicator, but I was like, I'm not going to high pressure and say, no, you gotta work with us type of person. Right. And, and so I decide, okay, well, you know where we are. Right? So, which, you know, if I had a sales manager, let's say, get here, if I had one, they'd say, ah, you know, call that person back. But just by myself, as many of our listeners are, we're by ourselves. We don't have anybody that's, you know, watching or managing who we're calling, not calling in our sales, right.

MP: 10:38 Sales activities. And so she didn't get back to me. And that was like a year ago and I didn't, I had it in my head that she chose the other vendor. Right. Right. And or solution or whatever that case with me. So I bumped into her yesterday and we had a good chat. She's a wonderful person, had a good chat, like how are things going? I was like, you know, talking about those wonderful things humans talk about. And I'm like, you know what? You know, how did things go? And she goes, well I have, I'm still thinking about it. I haven't done anything. I'm like, and it had it. And then we had an opportunity to talk about what her problems are and still are and, and all of that good stuff. And it's like, oh Whoa, you know what? I think we can help you. We should have another conversation. And you know what, Cindy, this call is so funny that we're having this call today because it's are a reminder that our mental construct, what we think about is what happens.

CS: 11:37 Yup.

MP: 11:37 And so, right, that does everything.

CS: 11:38 Yeah. My

CS: 11:39 mindset is everything. And, and so for our listener, to give an analogy here, is that even something as simple as diving off of a diving board, not even a high diving board, let's make the diving board like one foot up. Like, it's not like he didn't need to think that much, but if he just didn't think about going off the diving board, you could land on your stomach, you could do a belly flop, you could, you could literally hurt yourself if you hit the water wrong. And when, so most people, when they go up to dive off a diving board, they've stopped. They thought about it. They may have a little bit of fear, they re correct that they, they envision how they're gonna, you know, do it correctly. Like, Hey, give it some thought. So as something as simple as jumping off of a one foot diving board, more thought goes into that. I think sometimes then the thought that I put in to a sales call to a follow up, I'm putting more energy and thought into, well, I'm going to do a belly flop. Oh Geez, this is going to be a belly flop, right? They're going to reject me. Big belly flop. Right? And so it's like, why am I doing that? To me,

CS: 12:39 I don't know. People do it all the time. People were wired for more negative thoughts than we are for a positive. They pay anybody who meditates and you actually watch your thoughts. Yeah. Your mind can be a pretty scary place at times. And the key is you need to have your level of awareness and know what your triggers are and know, you know, little things. Like when, when I was in the beginning, I remember very, very beginning. I remember if I caught, uh, when I called somebody and if it sounded like it was like someone like my dad, like an older man, I automatically would feel in my body a bit of resistance and it felt like it would be, I would feel almost like a little kid. Hello, sorry. How are you feel that not that's an extreme, but it would feel like that to me.

CS: 13:28 And so what I used to do to be, and I always, when I'm doing a lot of my sales calls, I stand up and I walk around for sure whenever it came like that. And I remember there was a guy and I had, I was a sales call for a sales training program. I was talking to, I was a sales director and all I said to him was, you know, one of the things that I've found when I've spoken to sales directors is that there are always room for improvement in growing the business and improving their sales skills. Would that be the case for you? And he started laughing so hard. He said, you know that, that's a rhetorical question, Cindy. He said, yeah, I couldn't even possibly answer it. I can't imagine you calling any sales director ever. And they wouldn't be able to say yes to that.

CS: 14:13 And we won two days of training sales training with that and it was a number of years ago. So I dunno, I like to change things up to Michael. I don't, I ever see, I have some followup emails that are fairly standard, but I modify them so they speak to that person. And I think we talked about this too, is before the call is I really going to start to focus on industries and be more strategic in my focus and when I'm following up with people. But I did have a say a person contact when I contacted her and she introduced me to their president. She said, this lady, I'll never forget it. This lady has the right amount of followup. That can be one of the highest compliment you could get. Yeah, because you just asked for permission. Yeah. We just asked for permission. Somebody says, sorry, we don't have any needs today or we don't outsource.

CS: 15:02 While that, if somebody said to me, they don't answer us. I say, you know, I work a lot of companies when I spoke with them, they never outsourced. I said, but okay. Usually there could be a situation where maybe you need an executive assistant or maybe you need to cover up on mat leave and I'd offer a couple of options where they might not think that they can cause we're automatically programmed to say no. So you have to go past that and get that. That in fact, when I call somebody and I catch them on the phone, the first thing I ask them is, did I catch you at a bad time? Because you're programmed to say no. They're going to say no. I've got a couple of minutes. I've had people going on the plane, I phoned them and they'll say they catch you at a bad time and so I'm going to get on a plane in 10 minutes. But yeah I can, I got a couple minutes.

MP: 15:46 Amazing. That's, that's, that's a piece of, that's a piece of gold. It's a one that I use as well. I love it. It's really, it's really I think very courteous as well. Uh, it leads to the result we want more often. Uh, but it's very courteous and, and it's not like, like the reverse of it. Right?

CS: 16:04 Uh Huh.

CS: 16:05 Let me talk to you now. Like you have to drop everything cause I talk because as soon as you said it, I catch you at a bad time. You can almost hear their brain. It's like a little bit of a hesitation. God, cause they're there, they're not used to hearing that. And so then if they can't talk to you, nine times out of 10, I get an appointment and what is a better time? Give me your email address. I'll send you an appointment, whatever time it is, I will send it and send them a BD requested. We will talk 10 or 15 minutes later.

MP: 16:39 Yeah, it's, it's, it's pure golden. And so follow up. We know that followup is only going to bring good things to all of our businesses. All of our listeners followup is going to be amazing for you at k. It's going to put tens of thousands of dollars into your business likely in every year if, if you did proper follow up. And we do know from this conversation at between followup and actually doing it is mostly our brain and we need to bring awareness. So Sandy, let's come up with some, uh, a routine for our listeners that they can, they can take on that would be preparing them to a, make a call. That's a followup call or make a call to a referral that someone's called a referral or whatever the case may be. Maybe it was a couple of months back. Or like you said, you did this once a year for this one client. So can we come up with a, a routine that it's like, Hey, right, this is where I am. What do they need to do? Is it, would it be a good idea to sit for 15 seconds and go, okay, I have they, these people have no idea who I am, who I am.

MP: 17:52 That's one of the things that you said, right? It's like they have, they don't know you and you really don't know them truly as human being. So that's good.

CS: 18:01 No, we don't.

MP: 18:03 Number two is you said this is your really valuable. So it's like, get you gotta put that into your brain as a bookkeeper. You'll likely going to be one of the most valuable people in their life because you're going to help them get a whole bunch of stuff straightened out and their business, and it's all around money and being successful and having your business run efficiently and making sure the money's doing the right, the right thing. So number one, if you just stopped and said, okay, I don't know them, they don't know me, uh, it's not about me. Uh, and then connected with knowing your value that you are valuable. What would be another good step?

CS: 18:45 Well, you have to have, I got to hate the word script. That's why I'm hesitating. But you need to know what your outcome is going to be. If you do get to talk to them. Do you want, what do you want to do? What do you want to create in this call? So one of the CPS put it in a report and one of the biggest complaints from customers and clients was, you know, a salesperson just calling without an actual agenda, like without actually an intention or something like that. So there's something that we use, I use in my training is, it's a, I think I did this on the last one. It's a I D as in Donald, C as in Charlie, a. So the first one is to get attention that it's eyes to create interest and then the d is create desire.

CS: 19:30 So once you've got their interest, then you're going to start talking about the value that you bring. Then you can get a commitment for a next step. And then the final a is for option. So it could be a po, it could be whatever that action is. And so as people think about as they're going, what is my goal here? So if I'm, you know, I never tried to sell anybody anything. First of all, I want people to buy, help my customers by is what I, the way I look at it and a is getting their attention. So that's all this call is about. That's all I wanna do. That's all game over. And then you want to be able to set up a system. So how I do it is I follow up quarterly. So if I've spoken with someone, I've got a hold of them, I've shared them a little bit.

CS: 20:14 In fact, I joke and I say, Oh, I have a saying, you can't call me if you don't know it there. And they laugh and it's true. And I asked their permission. With your permission, I would love to send you a quick email with a link to my website. And I used to add everybody to the, or asked to add people to my newsletter. And most people said no for that. So I stopped asking that because it could just get too many anyway. Um, and so I would just say, would it be okay with you if I were to follow up with you periodically? Typically I do that quarterly and they always say yes, wonderful, you've got permission. And then when you follow up with them, basically you need to have a, whether it's a CRM or some sort of the system, then you look at your CRM and then you'll, you know, you sent them information in three months ago.

CS: 21:01 Then you could just follow up. I always, after I sent her an email, I'll follow up the next maybe week and say, just confirming that, you know, you got my email that if you have any questions that I'm here for you. You know somebody that goes into spam, I could resend like just to stay on top of it. And people have said, cause you're creating a relationship with them people, whether you reach those people, whether you realize it or not, you're actually demonstrating to them what it would be like to work with you. That if you said x and x happened at a very unconscious level, they are getting that they can trust you. I would tell, I can't even tell you the number of times I've gone into an HR Pa function and people recognize me from my blogs on LinkedIn.

MP: 21:43 It's so painful when people walk up to you and say, they already know who you are.

CS: 21:47 Yeah, yeah. I top it a few times. I'm like, it takes you back. At first actually it's like, Whoa, and because I blog once a month, I'm sorry, once a week and I have my Friday focus, so I always encourage people to have something in social media, whether it's Facebook or LinkedIn or Instagram or whatever would work for wherever your audience is, have something so that you keep yourself top of mind. So it's all, it's almost actually there was a movie about that, how they, I can't remember the name. It was actually really excellent how they program this person to be able to, I mean they scheisse that the guy out of money, but they programmed that. I remember it was a number 55. Then you could see at the end they showed how they programmed it from the hotel lobby to the, to the football player to the whole things. And so that's what you're actually doing in a way, is that so they see your face, they see your blogs, they, you know, all those kinds of things. And, and whether you realize that or not, you're building your reputation and people are starting to feel comfortable with you.

MP: 22:48 It's a, it's so, so true. And as small business owners, we don't have a huge budget like Coca-cola or Disney to put our brand in front of everybody so that when we see, uh, a red, we want to have a big drink of a Coca-Cola, uh, or, or the holidays, that sort of thing. But that's exactly what's happening. But you're able to get there by doing small things, very targeted to the right prospects. So you have your Linkedin, I mean, people follow you. You have to connections your, you're putting out content. And every time you put out content, if it's, if it's valuable, they're going to get value.

MP: 23:22 They're going to remember you 100% and also get, I always tell people to get recommendations on LinkedIn periodically, every, you know, four or five, six months or so. As somebody who's worked with you to do a recommendation, I read an article once said that they have way more credibility than anything on your website because let's face it, a lot of people could make it up, but dot. Because the person has to write it themselves.

MP: 23:44 Post it themselves.

CS: 23:47 Oh yeah,

MP: 23:47 Yeah. Interesting. So it's becoming LinkedIn referral recommendations are becoming the gold standard in the bit in, in, in, in our social world.

CS: 23:58 Yep. 100% so there, and I can't even tell you the number of people that just, they all just checked out in LinkedIn. That's the first thing they go to now.

MP: 24:12 Well, you know, it's funny, we, we were landing on, on LinkedIn. It's one of the things that's coming up as like every meeting I have in my calendar, I get a message saying, do some research on, I don't know if this, I don't know how this all started happening, that it happens. I get these notifications, maybe it's the iPhone app or something saying, Hey, you're, you're about to meet with Cindy Stradling. I guarantee if I look at my, my phone right now, you're about to meet with Cindy Stradling, take a look at the LinkedIn profile up. Maybe not this time. Maybe they figure, they know, they, they know. I know you so well. Um, but, but it's, it's like that's advertising, you know, so it's like, it's coming up. So anytime it's happening there, they're gonna go and look at your LinkedIn and faith's like if you've booked a meeting with them and they take a look at your LinkedIn, these recommendations are, they're very powerful for a sales call.

CS: 25:00 Like I buy gold, they see who we got in common. So that's a great ice breaker all. How do you know Joe? Or how do you know Michael or whatever? It's a great ice breaker when you're getting on the call. And I mean, unfortunately, sometimes I've got people I, in the beginning of it connect with anybody know I'm very, a little bit more discriminating now. So occasionally you'll get someone that they don't really know them, that they really connected with them. But most of the time, my just did this recently and I got two brand new recommendations. So they, I don't think it's as effective if I had still from like 2009 and they didn't have anything since then.

MP: 25:36 Hmm.

CS: 25:36 So I think it's important that you do it maybe once or twice a year. So you've got something in the current year, something that shows that you're still active and that you're still, you know, doing good work and all those kinds of things. So, you know, people always say, oh, you know, the world has changed because of social media that winter that are, I think, is that true? Easier in some ways.

MP: 25:53 Yeah, very much so. There's, there's pros and cons to everything. Changes.

CS: 25:58 Yeah. Changes is good and change can be, you know, not so good if we look at it. But at the end of the day, if we look at all of the things that we have at our, our hands in our hands, the small business owners, I mean it's incredible how much we can do with, with so little of, of capital and investment.

MP: 26:18 Right. I agree.

MP: 26:20 So follow-ups keep I, I think this has been great too, to set up a bit of a routine before following up and, and whether you're making a call to, to anyone go through that routine, you will have a better outcome. This is, this is 100%. Just go, going back to the diving board. If we just did, if he want to get better at diving, all you'd have to do is think a little bit more about it and you'd get better at it. Do it a bunch of times, you'd get even better at it. You mentioned script Cindy and absolutely we, we, you know, it's one of those things I think people hear the word script and go, well, hi, this is Michael. Am I calling you at a bad time? Right. We don't want to sound like we're reading a script, but script, if you feel like you don't know what you're doing, you feel totally lost.

MP: 27:12 You pick up a map, right? You look at the map, you figure out where you're going, and you go. You go down there and the first time you do it, it's probably going to go a little bit bumpy. But you do it a few times. You're going to be good at it. So I know that in our online portal for the successful bookkeeper community, we have lots of sample scripts and things that you can grab. Don't go and just do it first. Go and read the script with who you're calling. Take that script, make it your own. Write it out. Say it. Say it to a few people, practice it a bit, and then get on a call without the script. But guarantee you, you will be better and more natural, but you'll be way more impactful with everything Cindy's given you today.

CS: 27:52 And some of these example scripts 100% I always recommend people fold themselves. I love it. You leave themselves a message.

MP: 27:57 Great idea. Yeah.

CS: 27:59 What they found like, yeah, cause you don't know, right. Sunday's a little too critical of our boys or whatever. But I can give you a sense of the flock.

MP: 28:07 You know, I it for when I started doing podcasts, I, I couldn't, I didn't, I've, for my whole life, I've not liked listening to the sound of my voice, seeing myself on video, all this stuff. I'd be like, Oh, I did that wrong. I did that wrong. Oh what are you doing? You know, it's like very critical and, and so, but I don't know if I'm just getting older or what. I know, but I don't know what it is. But now I'm actually listening more to what I'm saying. I'm having people critique me and say, Hey, you say this a lot or you say that a lot. And, and hopefully I think I'm getting better. But it's the only pathway to getting better is to actually look at what's working and what's not working. So Cindy, that is a fantastic tip. And so easy phone your phone, leave yourself a voicemail as if it's a script.

CS: 29:01 Listen back to it, get some feedback. It will be painful, but it's can make you better and then it becomes automatic. I you don't even have to think about it. It's like any other habit. You find those neural pathways in your brain when you do it. It's like you're practicing your, you're going to have a different comfort level. It's like tiger woods. You know, when he swings, he sees that ball going into the hole even before he pulls the pull the club back.

MP: 29:23 Beautiful. You're absolutely right. And you know, we started, uh, in our conversation before the interview, another tidbit is being alone. Something like this, as small business owners and entrepreneurs and the list listeners are all in the same boat. Often we're working alone doing these things alone. And we think that we're the only ones that are struggling with the challenge. And so today we've talked about making followup calls and facing rejection and why it's so important to do that. And I have that challenge. I have my own barriers and blocks. Cindy has her own challenges, barriers and blocks. But together we work together and we, we, we, we take action and we get better. At it. And so if you're alone and you think you're have, hopefully this episode has, has showed you that yeah, there most people do have these hang ups. You're not alone and that you have a community here that can help you take that first step if you're, if you're, you know, uncertain about doing it, get onto the Facebook group and say, Hey, I'm, I'm a, you know, I'm facing rejection today or whatever.

MP: 30:36 I'm making a call and then, and then celebrate and share when you've actually done something that you were nervous or, or felt challenged to do. Go and share about it. And, and I'd love to see it and I, and, and I'm excited for you to do, do things in your business that you maybe are not comfortable for you to do or you've been resisting doing that when you do them, you're going to get better at them. You're going to have a better outcome in your business. And, uh, and Cindy, you help people get over their barriers around sales. You have some programs, you have content. You've already mentioned. What's the best way for our listener to get more of what you do?

CS: 31:12 Well, like I said to you before we started, we're in the process of changing our format on our training program, but I'm always open for coaching. Anybody can visit my website at Cindy, straddling.com all my contact information is on there. I blog regularly with lots of information on there. There's actually a downloadable ebook. It's with some tips on, you know, successful coaching situation, so like sales coaching, resilience coaching will always be alive as far as the actual program. Right now, it's a work in progress. We're actually looking at different options to put it online.

MP: 31:48 Beautiful. Well, that's exciting. We'll have the link to Cindy's website. There's a lot of value there and I know Cindy will be, we'll be able to help you get through whatever it is that your challenged with so that you can have the business that you love. Cindy, this has been fantastic. As always, I love having you on. You're a wonderful person. Thank you so much for your generosity and sharing what you know with our listeners.

CS: 32:16 Wow. Michael loves you. It was an absolute pleasure and I look forward to maybe coming back in 2019

CS: 32:22 that I can assure you will happen.

MP: 32:24 Okay.

CS: 32:25 Well, thank you so much and good luck to all of you. Call, call, call is out there.

MP: 32:30 Beautiful. Thank you, Cindy.

CS: 32:33 Okay, bye. Bye.

MP: 32:34 And with that, we wrap another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. To learn more about today's wonderful guests and to get access to all sorts of valuable free business-building resources, you can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com. Until next time, goodbye.