EP124: Helen Latimer - The Importance Of Having A Coach For Your Success

Big goals.

They can be scary and overwhelming, but breaking those big goals to little ones that you can manage is the key.That's according to our guest today, Helen Latimer, who is a career coach and owner of the company, 925 Resources which combines unconventional thinking and business acumen to help people achieve career success.

She has been a speaker at events for a number of professional associations including the Human Resources Professionals Association's national convention and more recently, the Administrative Professionals' annual conference.

During this interview, you'll discover...

  • What mentoring is versus coaching

  • The significance of having a coach

  • The importance of taking the time for reflection

To learn more about Helen, click here.

To find out more about 925 Resources, visit this link.

For Helen's LinkedIn page, check this out.

To contact her, you can email helen@925resources.com.


Michael Palmer: 01:33 Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast, I'm your host, Michael Palmer, and today's show is going to be a fun one. Our guest is a career coach and owner of the company, nine to five resources which combines unconventional thinking and business acumen to help people achieve career success. Helen Latimer, welcome back to the podcast.

Helen Latimer: 01:56 Well, thank you very much for having me, Michael. I'm just as delighted to, uh, to be part of the show on the event.

MP: 02:03 It is all our pleasure and I'm, what's hilarious is when we were speaking earlier before the show, you're like, hey, you know, is this live? No, we're going to have an editor.

HL: 02:15 Yeah. It's like, don't worry, you can't mess it up.

MP: 02:20 And then I actually messed up the intro. I said, Helen Latimer welcome back to the podcast. I don't know why I said that. If you've ever been on the podcast, it's your first time. But just funny how we put things into our brain, but uh, fun to have you here. And the connection is so interesting. So Alberta, Ku, Ku Bolus and I hope I'm getting his name right, but Alberto is one of our members in a Pure bookkeeping and he's an avid member of business networking international and he had recommended that you an extraordinary coach come onto the podcast. So I just absolutely love it. We talk a lot about BNI on this podcast. We Love BNI think it does such a fantastic job of helping business owners connect. And here we have guests that actually connected in a BNI and so welcome on that end as well.

HL: 03:10 Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I, I'm, I'm, I've been a member of BNI, uh, here in Toronto for, um, about 18 months. And one of the reasons I joined is that I'm, I'm by nature a little bit reserved and introverted and I also like many members of your audience, I have my own business and what that can do is can give me too much or give us too much alone time. So one of the reasons that I wanted to join BNI was just a chance to build some community and to make sure that I had a chance to meet people every week. But it's turned out to be so much more. And meeting somebody like Alberto to learn more about bookkeeping, you know, it's, it's always really interesting and it helps me be very useful to my clients. The more people I know, the better I can serve the clients that I have. So I'm a big, I'm a big BNI fan.

MP: 04:00 Yes, we are as well. And thank you for sharing that. I think it's, you know, the more, not everyone is aware of it, not everyone feels comfortable with it. And it's always great to have other people share, especially from a perspective of you're not a bookkeeper, you are a career coach. And so, you know, it helps. That's, that's what BNI is all about. And again, special thank you to Alberto for thinking of us and thinking of the podcast and recommending that you come onto the show. Now, before we get too much further down this conversation, let's have a conversation, uh, and hear about your business journey leading up to this point. So our listener gets to know a little bit about you.

HL: 04:43 Well, I'm going to try and keep that short story, story short, but yeah, my background is in what I call corporate A. I had about 20 years of ex business experience working in two big industries, retailing and telecommunications. And I've worked both in Canada where I currently live, uh, as well as the United States. So my background was, was not human resources, I was very much on the sales, marketing, business development side. So part of what I bring to my clients is a really good understanding of how big corporations work and what it's like to work in a big corporation. But about 10 years ago, maybe 15 now I, I did kind of a pivot and we, we had been living in the states for different reasons. We came, we came back to Canada and I just didn't know what I wanted to do next, which you know, happens, happens to us from time to time.

HL: 05:38 And I started doing volunteer work and trying different things, trying to physically like almost like shopping, trying on different outfits to see what fits. Um, I started doing some exploration and meeting with people and I was just drawn to, to helping others and, and very to helping people with their careers and having had, you know, good and bad experiences through, through my corporate life and learning from the mistakes that I made, I just felt that I had a lot that I could give to help people reach their potential in jobs and to also make sure that they're doing work that really gives them satisfaction and enjoyment. So I went more and more onto the coaching side. I worked with, um, a colleague of mine. We wrote a book. Um, and, and that, that, that really became kind of the foundation for stepping out on my own and, and, uh, creating my own coaching practice. So here I am. That's sort of in a nutshell where, where I am and why I'm here.

MP: 06:42 Wonderful. Well, our pathways are always interested when we look at them and how we end up. And this is just the beginning. We don't know where we're going to end up tomorrow, but today you're helping people transition, go through different changes, buns. And you've brought your life experience to this. I'm assuming that you've dealt with a lot of people that have gone through transition, especially with their jobs. And what is it that makes that so difficult?

HL: 07:13 Well, there's a couple of things is that sometimes if somebody, somebody's in transition, it means they can be already working. Um, so, so that can become very challenging just even from a time management perspective that they've got a full time job with full time obligations. They're trying to balance, um, personal life and that the demands that that can play and it can be very hard to keep moving forward if you're trying to make that sort of a transition. And if you don't have a very clear understanding of where you're trying to go, that can make it even more difficult. Um, and sometimes too, it's like we get very comfortable in our jobs and even if it's not giving us all that we would like, even though there's some things we wish were different about it, sometimes it's easier to just put up with that then to do the work. Uh, that's required. I think it's very, very difficult for most people to do on their own without working with somebody, whether it's a coach or it's a friend. Um, but often it's very hard to, to keep that momentum going if you're trying to do it all by body yourself.

MP: 08:26 Yeah, I can, I can imagine a, and in our industry, in bookkeeping and accounting space, there is so much change happening with technology. And so I'm sure you've heard of that in other industries and probably have clients that have, that have been a transitioning not to a new job, not to a new business, but having to deal with a lot of change that's happening. Uh, and sometimes they, this, you know, the, there hasn't been changed for very long time so it might not be very natural.

HL: 08:57 Uh, absolutely. I mean there, there are many, many jobs and industries that are changing because of technology claiming be changing because there are different demands from the marketplace, different regulations. And as you know, some, some of the things that I often talk to clients about when they're in those sorts of situations is try to be as observant as possible. You know, when we, and again, there's no judgment in this because we all do the same thing. We put our heads down at work and we're very focused on doing the work that needs to be done and meeting the various deadlines. And sometimes what that means is we're so focused on what's our on our desk, we're not paying attention to kind of what's going on in the broader company or in the broader industry and we're not keeping current. And it can mean that when something happens a as opposed to us having had a chance to get prepared for it because we're aware of it, it's kind of coming on. Oh my gosh, that's happening. That's happening now. So I always encourage people to, you know, join associations, the subscribe to different newsletters. Try and find a little bit of time, um, not necessarily every day, but a little bit of time every week just to kind of keep your eyes open to what's going on outside your specific business.

MP: 10:26 Great advice. And you, you said a couple of things that I think are, I want to highlight, which is earlier on doing it alone, right? You were in BNR B and I, part of that beat, the reason for being in BNI was to be around other people but as well, uh, coaches and mentors can be absolutely invaluable because they can provide a lens that we don't have. Uh, because we're in it. And I remember myself, I was in a, in a, I worked in a, in a role for a large corporation for six and a half years and I found myself at six and a half years thinking this was it. There's like, what could I actually go and do that was I like I look back now and I think how could I have fought that? I mean there is like a million different companies you could work for literally a million different companies, so many different injuries.

MP: 11:17 You, so many different things. I was young, quite young at the time, but yet it was because I was stuck in it and I was so busy with other things and where do I turn in? It wasn't until I actually met a coach in another program that I was taking where they actually just asked me a few questions and I was like, I started to open up and said, Oh, you know what? I'm not, I'm actually not happy here. It's like, oh, well what are you doing about that? It's like actually doing nothing about it. It's like, oh, it was just, and that was my actually my first introduction to a coach. And later I became, about 10 years later, I became a coach myself. But uh, it, it just always that story for me, whenever I hear someone talk about trying to do it on their own, it's, it's like it happens to all of us. There's somebody listening right now, I'm sure that's dealing with transition or change or you know, something not right, not feeling it, you know, that's where a mentor or coach can really help someone like yourself can really help.

HL: 12:17 Yeah, absolutely. And it's also one of the things that when we get into those situations, sometimes the people that love us best are our close family members, a partner or a spouse. It, I'm not suggesting a tall that we would never share our feelings and our, and our kinds of struggles with them, but sometimes there's, they're almost too close to us to, to be the people that we necessarily want to turn to for advice and guidance. So I often will start, if it's somebody who doesn't know you as well, who can help you look at options, help you create options, do some brainstorming with you. And you know, mentors are, are terrific. Um, and coaching those types of things. And because, yeah, sometimes in those situations, fam, family members, they just, they want us to be comfortable and they, they don't want us to be an unhappy. So their motivations and advice comes from a really wonderful place with incredibly good intentions, but doesn't always help us take the steps forward. That in fact we need to, we need to be taking.

MP: 13:21 Completely agree and, and it's, and it's wonderful and we need that support group. But a, and like you say, it's important to share and, and be in it with your family and your, and, and friends. But they just want the best for you. So that's likely going to be the safe route and the less, you know in their eyes the lot, the safe route, which is not the safe route. And so as a coach, what do you think that it is about a coach that you know is so effective at helping people make these big decisions in their life?

HL: 13:57 Well I think in some cases it's, it's helping them. It's helping people understand how they can break down these big goals into smaller, into smaller pieces. Because sometimes that's the struggle. I know the big thing that I want to do and if it's too big, it can be overwhelming. We can, we can feel a little bit of fear about well I can, how do I go from here to there? And so working with a coach, it's somebody who can help you break things down almost like a project has. Yes. As we do, as I'm sure your bookkeepers do is like you have to break things down into small manageable pieces. One that allows you to feel kind of a, I'm making some progress that allows you to set some benchmarks so that you can keep, keep yourself moving forward. And I think also with a w when you're working with a coach, there's kind of a built in accountability. It's helping you hold yourself accountable to making the changes that in fact you want to make to achieve the goals that you're setting. But it a big goal can sometimes be a bit intimidating.

MP: 15:05 It can. And I think there's something you'd be said about working with a coach who, who is a right fit for yourself. And so for listeners too, I like, there's so many coaches that you can work with. Make sure you have a conversation. Like they often will have, I'm sure Helen you have, it's not like people just go, well I got to hire you so I'm just going to hire you. They probably have a conversation with you first, which is it, you know, the, the first step to working with the coach is have a conversation and, and, and trust your intuition around does that coach have the ae the credentials? Does that coach have the, the feel, does that feel right to having a conversation with them? Because I think many people misunderstand what a coach, many coaches, uh, go through a lot of training and maybe you can talk a little bit about that. So it's not just me telling them, talked about it before about a lot of training around being in a place that's unbiased and service of clients, that sort of thing.

HL: 16:04 Yes. And I think I'll just go back to sort of that initial, you know, decision or about, I want to, I want to talk to somebody and I do very much echo what you're saying Michael. Um, you know, you should, anybody who's listening who's interested should not hesitate to reach out to anybody in the, in the, you know, the coaching profession, initial consultations in Gen generally should don't cost anything and in my opinion, shouldn't cost you anything just to have that initial consultation because neither of us know actually if we can work together and that, that initial understanding and conversation to see if there's rapport, to see if, you know, when I'm working with a potential client, I'm always very clear. I have to make sure that I feel I can help you. And part of that is just making sure that that person feels like somebody I can work with from a personality.

HL: 16:56 There has to be, has to be that fit. But yeah, there's, I think sometimes people have this misperception that if you work with a coach, the coach is going to sort of sort it all out for you. Um, and I've, I've joke had some laughs with clients to kind of go, so yeah. Really what I want you to do is, you know, you tell me what, tell me what I should be doing. Tell me how I should make my living. I'm like, I just smile and go, I don't know. I don't know how you should make your living. I've only been speaking to you for 10 or 15 minutes, so I'll, can I tell you what your, your next step in your career should be. So it's, it's, it's sort of helping people also understand the role is really helping you understand how you can find the answers that you're looking for and provide that sounding board and the, and ask the right questions that get you thinking and help you find in a sense, find your own answers. Okay.

MP: 17:47 Absolutely. You know, it, it's probably brings up an interesting point around what a coach is and what a mentor is. And so the question of what should I do, you know, tell me what to do is not likely the role of a coach in the, in the pure form of what a coach and in our industry, in the coaching industry is, is, is more, we're, we're the ones that ask that question. Right? As a coach, as a mentor, it's a little bit, I think down the track a little bit where you know what you want to do. Now Mentor has been there, done it. Uh, and it's going to tell you the way like a mentor. Let's give an example of climbing a mountain. If the mentor, uh, knows and has helped people climb them out and you know, you want to climb the mountain, the manager's going to say, don't go that way. Go this way, use these ropes, use these jackets, uh, these kinds of boots. They're going to give you a lot of answers, whereas a coach is going to ask more questions. You're the one that's going to come up with the question. And I think that's, uh, important because when you're working with a coach, going into it knowing already reduces the fear perhaps, or the unknown of what's going to happen when you get on a call or you, you start looking for a coach.

HL: 19:01 Yeah, absolutely. And mentoring, uh, relationship and often is a, I won't say it's an informal relationship, but it's a, a mentor is often somebody that you don't pay. Um, could be somebody within an organization who's not your boss, somebody more senior. It could be somebody in a related organization. It can be somebody on a professional board. And the relationship with a mentor, it in my opinion, like you as you're saying Michael is a little, it's a little bit diff, it's a bit different. They're often somebody who's, they're very specifically to kind of guide you to reach your career goals. So for example, one of my clients has a number of different mentors. She works with me as a coach, but she's also a somebody who works in the IT industry. So one of her mentors is somebody with a great deal of technical expertise and my client uses her, um, as a resource to kind of, you know, what very specifically understand gaps that she might have an in her technical knowledge, different programs and how, you know, what, what kind of it knowledge and development that she needs to to reach your goals. So very specific things that I as a coach wouldn't necessarily be well would not be able to help her with. I'm not an it expert. So you could certainly have both. And um, as I say in this case, my client actually has more than one mentor, um, to, to help her or achieve her career objectives.

MP: 20:36 Yes, that's, that's the, and for both, both of you and I and many of the listeners, if we looked closely, our lives are filled with these types of people and some of them are, are, are just people that we come across that we start working with and they become an informal relationship. We're where we're getting information and ideas sharing, that sort of thing. And, and, and, and then it can also translate into paid. Like there's things where we need to figure out, you need to specifically solve a problem in your life. There's people out there that can, I've done it many times, know how to do it and charge to actually solve those problems. You know, you, you mentioned another thing about coaching that I thought was interesting is just the, the, the fear of unknown going into actually working with a coach there. Many times I've had people come up to me, uh, in the, in the work with bookkeepers and saying, you know, I, you know, I was, I wanted to have a conversation with you, but I just didn't, didn't reach out.

MP: 21:35 And I'm like, well, why didn't you reach out? And I was like, well, I, I was afraid. I didn't know what was going to happen. I felt, you know, like felt like I wasn't as far ahead as I should have been. All these different reasons that really were completely made up in their head, but yet it prevented them from taking action and actually doing something about it. So they knew there was a resource. He knew that, that there were some help. But it's this, it's coming back to this change and, and not knowing. And so why is it so hard to deal with these situations or make these positive changes or improvements in our lives?

HL: 22:10 Hello? That's a big, that's a, that's a big, a big question. So I'm going to break that down a bit. I mean, I think, I think sometimes what we do is we're not, we're not always very gentle and loving with ourselves. And we sat, you know, we have pressures internally and sometimes those are the most, the most challenging to deal with other, the internal expectations that we set for ourselves, the very high standards we have to, you know, just be excelling at everything and, you know, w masters of everything. Then there's a lot of external pressures that we're bombarded with as well. And it can, it can make his fear, oh my gosh, I'll, you know, I'll never, I'll never do this. Or we're fearing judgment. Um, we're fearing, gosh, I might be, I'm the only one who feels like this. Everybody else looks like they're coping with things just fine.

MP: 22:59 And I think that can be an uncomfortable place to be. So there is a hesitancy about reaching out to somebody. And I think the coaches that I know and work with, one of the things we do is to try and create a safe space for our clients so that they can reveal a without feeling that there's any kind of judgment that everybody's struggling with different things and everybody needs help at some point in their life or in some point in their career. And that reaching out to get that help is exactly as actually an act of bravery. And once you make that, that first step, it can, there can be quite a bit of relief as you start to see, oh actually I like, I start to

MP: 23:46 break this big mega goal into something smaller. Or I've got somebody who's listening and can and can just say something that can change how you feel for a little bit. But I do understand that it can be quite overwhelming to, to make that first step and, and so do you have any tips for taking that first step?

HL: 24:08 Yeah. My, I guess my tip would be is that if you think that the type of things that you're wanting to accomplish would be easier to do if you wouldn't, you know, you were to fast forward and look back and you know, two, two years down the road and kind of, okay, I'm, I'm here and I'm doing the work that I want to do and you kind of have this lovely vision of, of, of, of a career and a business that everything is, is where, where you hoped it would be. You have to, you have to make that first initial step. It's a small step, but it's the step that gets you along the path. And if you sort of feel, I really want that, or if I don't take this little step in two years, so now I'm going to be in exactly the same place.

HL: 24:54 Sometimes that can be helpful to just kind of, you know, what happens if I don't reach out? What happens if I don't put my hand up and say, actually I do want to talk to somebody or I need to find a mentor. It can be that a year or two years down the road you find you, you've not been able to do do it on your own. So weighing the consequences for not taking that step forward can sometimes be a motivator but also understanding that it's very low risk. You know that one conversation with somebody, it's not a commitment, you're just exploring, you're just having a conversation and it can be as short as you know, half an hour, 45 minutes. It's, you know, don't let something like that hole hold you back from just having that conversation with somebody. It can be life-changing.

MP: 25:40 I agree with you completely and really great, really great advice on, on actually just had a pat to think about it. What, what's, what's the, what's it costing you? And you mentioned earlier taking time out. Like there is nothing that can, that can really replace stopping from the work, right? Is when we're doing the work, when we're in it, it's, it just as the days just blend in each other. So what are some strategies to, to actually pull away where we can get some of that thinking time to, to do this thinking and asked ourselves that question and some reflection like what is the cost, what do I want? What is the change that I want to make and what direction do I want to go to actually start making that? What would be advice there?

HL: 26:27 Yeah, in terms of time, trying to find time to reflect. I think even if you're not wanting to me to make any changes in, in your life, I think time for reflection is important for all of us. So I don't have a magic bullet that will help anybody, any listener sort of find that chunk of time. But what I can share is some of the things that I have, how I have been able to find time and, and some of it is one I stopped, I stopped looking for big chunks. You know, that can be hard to find. Oh I need two hours to reflect. I try and do reflection in times where I'm doing an activity that doesn't require a lot of brain power. So a couple of things that I do for example is I have to have, I have a dog, my dog needs a walk. So I, when I'm taking my dog, I actually use that quite purposefully as time for reflection. Um, if I'm on commuting, I'm riding on a bus or a subway, same thing. I'll choose not to listen to music necessarily. I'll choose not to work.

MP: 27:36 Hey, wait a second. You're telling people not to listen to the podcast here. Hey.

HL: 27:40 Well, no, I don't mind. I go beyond that. I don't mean that at all, but just those are the times in this cause I love listening to music. Believe me, I love when as long as they listen to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast in the morning, then they can do reflection after. MP: 27:52 Okay.

HL: 27:53 Exactly. They can do reflection after, but it is looking for just sometimes that small bit of time because you know, I see people on the subway, they're there working and doing other things. And sometimes it's just saying, okay, rather than do my typical thing on the, on the bus or during my commute, I'm gonna do something a little bit different and just take 10 or 15 minutes of reflection. I'm keeping a little, you know, a short time to try and do a little journal. Can an entry, um, can be very helpful for just making notes when things kind of, you don't have a piece of paper and a pen or use your tablet, but just some note-taking can be helpful in terms of capturing a thought as it comes in. But I often find looking for smaller bits of time, um, are easier for people to fit into their routines rather than trying to find a big chunk of time.

MP: 28:45 Yeah, I it is, Eh, I mean if the probably the very best thing we could do is take like three months off to really think things through. But if they can't make that happen, then just a few minutes it during the day would be the next best because really there's the, the problem is that we're so stuck a and many, many listeners who are stuck in their life, it's yeah. That people say, Oh, you need to go and do make it too big. Then the reflection never happens in here. It is the year away or two years down the track you're looking back and like I haven't had time to reflect and I think many fall into that trap. So that's, that's very gold advice in my opinion, is to make sure that in your daily routine find spots where you can stop and go and ask them, saw yourself some of these questions that you've posed. Do you have any other questions? You've had a few of them that have come up. If, if everyone shut off the podcast for instance, after this and they have a little bit of extra time to maybe in their commute or you know, shut the radio off or if they're going for a run or they're walking the dog. And I was going to say that you didn't walk the dog, the dog was walking, you probably got take my owner out for a walk. They is, she needs to reflect

HL: 30:06 Exactly. No, I, and one of the areas often that can be found is, is just, uh, I, you know, things like different social media feeds, television, Netflix, all of these things. I'm not saying don't do them, but sometimes it's saying, well, instead of doing something on social media for 45 minutes, maybe I'll just go on for 30 minutes and then I'll spend 15 minutes reflecting. So sometimes it's just choosing, you know, to, to use our time a little, a little bit differently because I really don't think you, you know, small bits of reflection can be, can be helpful too.

MP: 30:47 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think just something came up in my mind here is that there is a connection, I think around you're getting exercise when you're walking the dog or the dogs walking you, people that are out walking or getting some, some form of exercise I think is is probably your or even just taking yourself out of the environment that you're in. If you were sitting on my couch looking at or at work and looking at, you know, your Facebook, you decided to take a, a break from that to reflect, get, get out of the, get out of the house, get out of the office wherever you're at and put yourself into, into a space that's not going to be the same as that you're in. Would you agree?

HL: 31:28 Oh, absolutely. Um, one of the things that I'm trying to incorporate into the days when, when I have kind of a solid workday in my office is a break every hour and at that point to get up and walk around to get up and get a glass of water or to get up and make a cup of tea, but to physically get up, move out of my office, move around. And I don't take a very long break, but we've, I think absolutely building these types of things in with a bit of a change of scenery, really helpful. But it's also really good for our health to get up on a regular basis and, and, and walk around. Um, and I think it helps actually, um, replenish our energy so that we can maintain a higher level of productivity. So I absolutely agree with the getting up and if it can be outside, that's even better. I mean, just a few of, you know, a little walk a on a fall day can be, can be very helpful for your general wellbeing and how you feel.

MP: 32:35 Beautiful. You know, it's one of the things that I've started to do recently, which is getting up and going for a brisk walk outside. And it's been fantastic. It just breaks up the day. Ah, I don't do it every hour. My wife would probably say she's, if she hears this podcast, she's going to say, I want you to do what Helen said. I want you up every hour going for a walk around the block. But it makes a big difference. And it really is, that time is an incredible time. I don't, I haven't actually, even the motivation hasn't been for me to reflect now that you're telling, you know, bringing it up, uh, I'm like, Hey, you know what? I've been doing a lot of reflecting as I've been walking. So, uh, I was motivated by just getting that exercise and for the health benefits. But that's the time when I'm reflecting where my thoughts are the best is when I'm active doing something along those lines. So that's only gonna translate back to our productivity, to our satisfaction throughout the day and those sorts of things.

HL: 33:32 Absolutely. Absolutely. And one of the things that I add into my reflection is I have a point or a my walk where there's a lovely group of trees. And at that point I always stop for a minute and I actually, I express gratitude and I just don't, I just put out there, you know, that I'm thankful for the different things that I'm thankful for. Um, you know, and that can sometimes be, you know, things aren't going well. Then my, the gratitude is that the opportunities are put in front of me and that I have, um, you know, the resilience to keep going even though something didn't go my way. So I try and use that, um, that, that, that just one minute to be very conscious that I do, even when things are challenging, I try and find things that I can be thankful around those challenges.

HL: 34:23 And I find that so very powerful shift in terms of how I view things. So, you know, things going on with, uh, family members and things that can sometimes be a source of stress. I think, you know, I kind of put out my gratitude that there's good communication between my husband and me as we deal with these challenges, that sort of thing. It's not trying to diminish, you know, the, the, the gravity of the situation. But I try and find some way of putting some positive framing around that so that there's, uh, a gratitude that I express on that. It sounds a bit kind of out there, perhaps for some of you or some of your listeners, but I have found that that has made it, I'm a very positive difference to my, to my outlook.

MP: 35:07 Well, if it's, if it's, if it's sounding outlook for out, if it's sounding out there for any of our listeners, then I recommend that you get out there and do this very exercise because I think it, you know, you mentioned it's with trees and with nature, you've gone for a walk. It's outside, you're with the dog and you're reflecting and giving gratitude or near these beautiful trees that you've found along your walk. Every single listener guarantee you spends way too much time in front of a computer. Uh, and yours truly here as well. We're, the more, our world is moving to that and we're always with electronics and it's all virtual and wild stats.

HL: 35:50 Awesome. And we can all celebrate and, you know, some are saying, Michael, I'm not celebrating. Uh, but you know, it does bring these technologies, bring all of these great benefits and hey, Alexa, play my favorite song.

HL: 36:00 I mean, it's all made up. It's not real. Right. And so even work, like if we, the more we do these non real things, it sucks us into this believing that just like I was for six and a half years at this state of belief that, hey, this is ed. I don't know what else I could do. I'm at, you know, that was my mindset. We, when at, when I'm removed from it, like you are, you're getting out there going for this walk. You're in nature. You're, you're with what's real. Well, we could probably have an esoteric conversation about that too, but, you know, it's closer to real perhaps living organisms going on like, so I think so important. More and more every day for all of us. Uh, to get out there and do exactly that.

HL: 36:43 And, and unless, unless I don't want your listeners to, to sort of think, oh, I, how'd it, you know, that I'm spending hours of every day. I mean I live in Toronto, which is, uh, so I'm an urban dweller, so it's not like a, so like many, I'm sure of your, of your listeners. I, you know, I'm living in a major city, so I'm going out for maybe 20, 25 minutes. I, it, it is time that I still have to put in my routine defined, but again, it's not trying to find two hours of time. It's, it's just taking notice of, of what's around me, you know, to see what's there. So I sort of figured if I could bite it. And in the city where I live, I'm sure others living in cities and, or, and if you're in the suburbs I am and rural areas, I would imagine that would be even easier to find. But you know, it's not, I'm not,

HL: 37:37 well here, I was imagining that you're walking down this wonderful cottage country road with the deal blowing leaves and lake in the background. But yeah, you know,

HL: 37:48 there's living in places like that, but just, just to kind of put it into context and wherever you live, you can find those.

HL: 37:58 There is soulless everywhere and it, and I think it comes back to what you were saying about, you know, it doesn't have to be this big, uh, you know, goal where you're going to spend two hours or whatever. Even just going for a two-minute walk is going to be better than not going for any walk at all. Start with something small. I mean, we do, I find myself, so why my wife is selling me, Michael, you spend to sit too long at your desk. She, you know, she's, that's where the, you know, she's giving me great advice to get up and she wants me to be healthy. Right. But I do. And, and even though like after this, this right now on what, what's on my mind is I haven't gone from my daily walk and I'm, I'm going to go out, but there's a bunch of things I want to get done today and I haven't done and the day is kind of slipped away on me and, and, and, and, and, and it could be really easy for me to just keep doing the work. And I think our listeners probably fall into that trap too. So it's just to take the, the opportunities, make sure it's a routine and get out there and do it. I have to get out there and get that walk. Otherwise I'm not gonna walk. And then it's a new behavior where I'm not doing what's healthy for me and for a better future.

MP: 39:07 Yeah.

HL: 39:08 And don't beat yourself up on the days where it's just not going to happen. I mean, it is trying to build that routine and you're going to have days when it just doesn't work or you slip and don't let that prevent you from trying again the next day. I think that's, you know, it's a, there is a resilience to not letting, not letting the negatives outweigh it because I have days where, I mean my dog, of course, she's going to take me through her walk every morning, but other forms of things where like, like you, I have these intentions to do and there are days where it's just not possible. So rather than look at that and go, oh, you know, you let yourself down, I go didn't it? Tomorrow's the day. Um, so I do try and make sure that I'm, I'm not too hard on myself on, um, days because if it, you know, people have children and all other things that are going on where we're not always in control of our schedules or clients or it's tax season and there are busy, busy times of the year where we're not necessarily going to be able to do what we would like to do on every single days.

HL: 40:14 So fitted in where you can and you know, you could be kind to yourself on the days when you don't have time to do it.

MP: 40:21 Beautifully said, don't beat yourself up. Make sure you do. Take the time, find the time and a, and don't make it too big of a goal. Just start small. These are great, great ways to, to, to enter into and make sure that you're taking care of yourself and reflecting enough to know are you on the right track? Are you, you know, are the things you could be doing differently? Should you be looking at hiring a coach? That's where you're gonna find those answers in as an a bit of reflection and then taking that to be around the people that you interact with and it, it leads you in a, in a better space. This has been absolutely wonderful and I had a whole bunch of questions I wanted to ask you because you're also, you declare yourself as an introvert and I know there are many introverts that work in the industry and I think that's a whole other conversation. I'd love to invite you to come back and talk about that, uh, on, on another episode.

HL: 41:18 Sounds good.

MP: 41:20 Awesome. Now before we let you go though, please tell, tell our listener what's the best way. If they found some, some interesting conversation here and they wanted to reach out to you, what would be the best way them to do that?

HL: 41:34 The best way would be email and it's Helen, H, e l e n@9to5resources.com and so on. That's the numbers nine to five, so helen@9to5resources.com.

MP: 41:50 Excellent. Well, we will have that of course in the show notes for anyone that's interested to connect with Helen and Helen. On behalf of all of our listeners, I want to thank you for being generous with your time to come on the show and share what you know about life and where life can take you.

HL: 42:06 It was, it's been my pleasure. A lot of fun. Thanks for having me.

MP: 42:10 Great. Thank you. And that wraps another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. To learn more about today's guest and to get access to all sorts of valuable free business-building resources. You can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com until next time, goodbye.