EP112: Blaine Bertsch - Cash Flow Management Tool For Bookkeepers

A big percentage of business failures are due to poor cash management.

Blaine Bertsch, Co-Founder and CEO of Dryrun, focuses on helping businesses and financial professionals work towards financial health through financial forecasting.Dryrun is used to visualize cash flow, budget and sales scenarios, compare 'what ifs' and give businesses direction and keep them in the loop.

Today, Blaine manages core operations at Dryrun and leads product design.

During this interview, you'll discover...

  • The importance of keeping ownership and control

  • Benefits of cash flow management

  • Prioritizing what really matters

To learn more about Dryrun, visit here.

For Dryrun's Facebook, discover here.

For Blaine's LinkedIn page, click here.

For his Twitter, go here.


Michael Palmer: 01:42 Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. I'm your host, Michael Palmer, and today's show is going to be a great one. Our guest has more than 15 years of successful entrepreneurial experience today. He focuses on building his cashflow software company dry run to help businesses and financial professionals work towards financial health through financial forecasting. How delicious. Blaine Bertsch, welcome to the podcast.

Blaine Bertsch: 02:11 Hi Michael. Thank you so much for having me.

MP: 02:13 Yeah, it's great. And, you know, we met at a bookkeeping conference and you told me Your backstory and I absolutely loved it and knew instantly that I wanted to have you on the show. And before we get into why, tell us a little bit about you and your career path leading up till today.

BB: 02:32 Oh, sure. Certainly. Um, so yeah, I remember, you know, telling you a little bit about my background. I think that Kinda came up in conversation and you know, really you'd asked how I got into, uh, you know, cashflow forecasting and uh, you know, I don't have a formal finance background. Uh, I'm a business owner. I'm an entrepreneur for, it's funny, I'm actually close to 20 years now. I think I better update my bio, you know, the way I dove into casual and forecasting. I literally credit, uh, or blame I guess either way. Uh, 2009. And so I started my first business in 1999 and um, by around 2007 or so, uh, we had grown the business. Um, we were traveling, I had a business partner partner by them. We were traveling literally all over the world on, on trade shifts from, from uh, um, Asia to, you know, New York, Austin, Texas for south by southwest.

BB: 03:23 We were just all over the place all the time. We had, um, just expanded our business, hired new staff, got um, we'd build the, got into different offices from bigger to bigger to bigger and planning to grow into it. We had one that was way too big and, uh, we just leased fancy new sports cars and that was, you know, we, we felt like we were just like on a complete roll. Everything was flying along, but we had our challenges here and there with cash flow. But you know, just kind of flew by the seat of our pants, had enough work coming in, didn't really think that much about it. And we started to hear these rumblings of this, I'm not this recession, the school bill recession, but you know, you started to think God can't get all the way down to us. You know, we're too little.

BB: 04:04 We're in Canada, we've got clients, you know, it's not gonna, I'm not gonna do much. And around 2009, we realized that just wasn't the case at that time. 70% of our clientele were government just to go back a step as a creative agency. So we were doing a lot of like videos and like touch screen kiosks and kind of software stuff and this sort of new media type stuff. Um, at that time it was really, really novel. Suddenly those budgets started slamming shots and projects that we actually had midstream and, and uh, close to the end were getting canceled. Um, we actually had one project that was, we actually build on 96% of the project. They still counseled it because they could actually report that, um, they had canceled the full amount even though they didn't admit that they had actually paid out that much, really strange time, really strange things happening.

BB: 04:55 So for us, suddenly things change. Felt like literally overnight. We, um, we were determined to, to make it through the months and, and make it through the year. We didn't want to lay anybody off. We just hired a number of new people. They were, you know, felt like family to us. Of course, they had families suddenly becomes very, very real. And, uh, so to me it felt like the fun time soft and I, I literally pulled out the spreadsheets to figure out how I was gonna make payroll on Friday. That's literally how it started. And we just kind of scraped through and scraped by. And I remember in 2000, I think it was 2010 our, our accountant, um, at our kind of yearly meeting and at that time only did once a year, congratulated us for losing 5%. And I was, I was a little bit, you know, Kinda like, oh, what a Cherokee and uh, and realize that he actually said, he goes, no, I'm not kidding.

BB: 05:49 Says the amount of businesses that are losing their shirts and going bank or up, he says, you guys, figuring out some weight up to make it through. Like that was, was a rarity. And by 2011, we actually had our biggest year. And so going back a step, it started with this, you know, very basic cash flow forecasting to figure out, you know, do I have enough cash to get through the week through the month? But it started to grow into, you know, it almost got addictive. I'm like, well man, I've got to figure out what's going on in my business. Well how are we going to make, uh, you know, our budget for the year? How are we gonna make that goal so we can actually grow? And so I started to do a sales forecasting and then I started to look at our underlying numbers of, you know, what we could produce and how efficient we work and how many billable hours our team could produce.

BB: 06:35 Where are we actually producing that? And so I started to build these forecasts out and figure out more and more the sort of underpinnings of our business. And that really is what, what got us to that point where, where we were growing. Uh, we survived. And then we started to grow. And the really sad part is looking back and realizing how much money I left on the table for the previous eight, nine, whatever years, by flying by the seat of my pants and really not understanding our finances and where we were headed. You know, what happened last year? You know, for example, 2009 what happened in 2008, what happened in 2007 completely unrelated, really didn't make much difference to us. It was all how do we move forward? How do we reduce our risk of Boyd crisis? And then how do we grow? So that's, that's where this all came from. So, um, to jump up closer to today, and I sold that business in 2012 and, um, this just started, kept coming back to me and like I really struggled with hated those spreadsheets, even though that saved my butt and needed to figure out there, there's got to be a better way. There's gotta be a better way to, couldn't find a better way. So I decided we're going to build a better way. And that's really what, what led to dry run.

MP: 07:55 It's amazing. I can just listening to your story, I can imagine the, uh, the challenges, the sleepless nights that you would have went through and then you were lucky you, you discovered a way to navigate as often many great opera entrepreneurs do is they find a way to get through the mountain. And if you have two and, and then, and then you turned it around and you, you found the power of having visibility into what's really going on in your business, which, you know, if any business owner was listening right now, I'm sure they're salivating at, I want that data. I want to have that information, I want that view into my business. And that's probably what you have people getting excited about dry run.

BB: 08:42 Yeah, absolutely. You know, unfortunately, a lot of times what happens is when businesses come directly to us, a lot of times they're in crisis, they're stepping off the curb in front of a bus and they're just realizing it and they're trying to find their way through it. And you know, a lot of times they'll move onto that next step where they're going, okay, well how do we, how do we avoid happen having this happen again? Like I always say capsule forecasting is kind of in four phases or four areas using the term cashflow a little bit loosely. But you're going from that, that crisis of stepping right out in front of a bus to go into that risk aversion where you're saying, okay, how do we make sure this isn't happening again? So when you step out in front of a bus, the bus now is actually three blocks away.

BB: 09:27 You can kind of go, okay, well now he cross the streets, are we gonna step up back onto the curb? Or we, you know, we have options, right? And then you go from there. Kind of like I did going into, okay, well if I get to make, you know, I've got to make a million boxes here, how am I going to do it in 12 months and not 14 like how do I reach those goals? And then finally, how, and when do I grow? Because growth is both essential. But also, you know, extremely dangerous at times. So it's gotta be planned and timed really carefully. So that was kind of what we see. A lot of times businesses will hop in at any of those four stages, but too often is that the crisis mode. And you know, like I met you at a bookkeeping conference.

BB: 10:05 We are spending most of our time, I'm talking with bookkeepers and talking with accountants and even, you know, um, fractional CFOs and business coaches to a lesser degree to tell them not only about dry run, but to tell them that there's this massive opportunity to step in and help these businesses before they hit a crisis. And the biggest issue we see is that there's just this massive miscommunication between businesses and bookkeepers. They, the bookkeepers, I think sometimes they ask a question and say, hey, how's your cashflow? And the business owner, they're thinking, you know, six feet ahead of them. They're saying, Oh man, I've got enough money to make it through Friday. That's good. But the reality is he started asking the right questions and you find out that they had a couple of close calls in the last month. They had to put some personal money in to keep it afloat. It is keeping them awake at night. Absolutely. Literally when you see we see people signing up at 3:00 AM and then we look and we're like, oh no, they're from our side of the world.

MP: 11:01 I love that.

BB: 11:02 It happens a lot and it's, it's when you see it, it almost like you just kind of, you know, your heart kind of grabs it cause you know, man, someone's in, in, in deep, right,

BB: 11:14 there's a saying, it's like what's your 3:00 AM issue? And it's just funny how I've been there. I didn't, they're off waking up at 3:00 AM and it's like, what's, what is it about 3:00 AM that, uh, that makes us our unconscious mind go get out of bed and solve a problem cause I can't do it asleep. And, and yet your, uh, your product is, you know, sign up. Is that 3:00 AM like that's what's happening. They're waking up in sweats and going, how am I going to solve this problem and googling for something likely so, so interesting. So much excitement for me because this consoled such big problem and unfortunately many entrepreneurs, small, small business owners don't even realize how important this is yet. I was just talking with someone earlier today about just, you know, having people be motivated to do something to change, right? It's often they don't, they don't know or don't take action until it's that 3:00 AM and they're stepping into the front of the bus, right?

BB: 12:16 It's like right. The bumpers right at their ankles here and unfortunately once it happens, once they, they go, oh, I don't like this and change. But you said something that I think is, is exciting and could be great for our audience too, to spend time around the conversation or move the conversation with their clients to is that what money are you leaving on the table? It's such an interesting statement and that is like, imagine if that what you're leaving on the table could be a whole nother, you know, what, whatever it's valuable to the business owner. But it could be that you're leaving like 10 trips to vi to Hawaii on the table every year. Right. For your family. Right? Like, I mean, you, you, you left rillette leaving. Like what kind of numbers were you leaving on the table?

BB: 13:02 I can't leave. That was the, you know, it's quite a number of years ago now. It's 2012 when I sold that business. But I know at one point it was in my head that the hundreds of thousands of dollars and I remember going just at a glance going, whoa man, have we left a lot of money on the table every year and money that was just, there wasn't anything tied to it. It was, it was mismanagement, silly inefficiencies, areas of our process we could have tightened up and you just start looking and going like that is a, um, a significant amount of money. It's the amount of money that every year that helps us take that next step to, to grow, to have a higher profit margin, to have more money in the bank to get, um, you know, the, the nicer office and the nicer, you know, equipment and things that can actually help attract, you know, more great staff and great customers and, and, you know, it's just having a really comfortable atmosphere and just, you can just sort of picture those things. Right. And, and it's, um, it's true that businesses like the hoppin when they're in that crisis, that also in sometimes when they're trying to figure out their growth or they're just starting their business, there's lots of different times in the hotbed. The crisis one is most often and most.

MP: 14:19 Um, yeah, I can imagine there are proactive people in the world. Yes.

BB: 14:23 Yeah, they definitely are. But the other thing we find with business owners out, like the, the, you know, of course, bookkeepers and the counselor, so often they are business owners as well. But I'm talking about, I like, I call it the cowboy entrepreneurs. They're, they're the ones that are on the no financial background. They're the other side. They're the, the mes and a lot of ways flying by the seat of the pants until you kind of take control things. They have a, would I see like a very short attention span to put it mildly. I like, I always say they're off Jason Butterflies, so they get past a crisis and they go, wow man, I don't want that to happen again. And they stick with it for awhile and then a lot of will start to fade because the priorities start to change. Now they're working, you know, in their business and they're trying to, you know, catch up and help the crew and get that new job and they, they lose their attention span until crisis hits again.

BB: 15:16 So let's go one thing we find business owners there, they're super quick to buy. They'll cancel it really odd times and they'll come back two months later and start again. And you're just, Oh man, like guys stick with it. Because I know when you're in another crisis, you just, you know, there's, they're in and out and up and down and all over the place and we know that there's this massive opportunity for bookkeepers to go in and say, really help them understand. Like that's a lot of what we do right now is we're, we, we actually are building all sorts of resources for bookkeepers and talking with them all the time to try and say, here's how you can communicate with your business owners. If we hear way too often on it, they don't, they don't have cash flow problems because they haven't told us.

BB: 15:57 And literally I had an, uh, an email from one of our partners this morning that had a meeting with a business owner, uh, it was last Thursday and it was Kinda like, well, I'm not sure if they have problems, but seems like the type of business that might, and then I found out this morning, they're like, yeah, they're on board to, to dive into dry room because they've been trying to do it themselves with spreadsheets. And the bookkeeper had no idea that they were actually already actively trying to figure this out. They didn't know the bookkeeper could help them. Um, the perfect situation from what we see everyday is that the bookkeepers have specially, you know, dived in and are using that cloud technology. It can keep, it can help them build the system. They can help these businesses save ridiculous amounts of time, but they can also be the one to just kind of keep them honest and like, hey, we're on top of it.

BB: 16:46 Your numbers are going to be reconciled. You're driving in the county or forecast. We can be up to date. Um, and we're gonna drop you an email every Monday morning and tell you where you sit and here's a little action list. Follow up with these guys. There's an invoices overdue. You got to find out about it. Check on this and this. And the business owner saves a ton of time. Does a prioritizes the two or three things that really matter and everybody is happy. The businesses fending, the business owner is spending much more time on their business. They're getting the service that is, you know, helping them avoid crisis and, and helping them grow their business and helping them understand more. So they'll get to the point of going, okay, let's take that next step and figure out how do, how do we grow this thing because they're not so focused on the next minute they can. They're getting some help with that from professionals that can really offer that help.

MP: 17:41 I just love it. It, it, we often talk about this very topic and this is the opportunity

MP: 17:50 for bookkeepers is to use tools like this to empower their clients around their finances. And I don't know, I don't think I've ever been to a business meeting where I'm with other entrepreneurs where cashflow was not something that was like an important piece of, of the future, right? It's like everybody wants to have a crystal ball. What's happening? What's coming, what, what, you know, the more we can provide what's happening in the future, the better we can make decisions. We can take bigger chances. We can do all sorts of things that are going to put our business in a better position to win. And so as bookkeepers being the financial guides out there, I mean if you were to go on a trip, you'd go to a museum even, I mean your experience of that museum with an audio guide or a real guide for that matter. But audio guides are pretty great too, if your satisfaction of the whole experience goes up like beyond measure because now you actually are able to take in way more in way less time. And so if we think of the same thing for bookkeepers, being able to take information like your career, helping them create efficiently and bring that to business owner, you're seeing as that person that just increased the enjoyment of their business experience.

BB: 19:11 Yeah, it's, it's the opportunity is, is, is huge and the, but we see this, this, um, like I said, there's miscommunication between the two sides all the time. And, and there has to be a way to get over that. And that's what we're talking about all the time is, is like bookkeepers and accountants. A lot of times say, oh, well my customer doesn't understand cashflow. And I'm like, yeah, you know what, they know cashflow. They know that inside out, they might not know the term. They probably struggled somewhat with the mechanics, but they intuitively understand cashflow. Like I, I, I'm, uh, twice in the last couple of years when I've been talking with business owners and they say, what do you do? And I said, oh, we got, you know, cashflow forecasting twice, twice. They teared up, literally turned up just from the word cashflow. I didn't say anything else.

BB: 20:00 And I'm like, oh, hold on, sorry. What's going on? And you realize they're in the middle of like cashflow. Hell like right now. Um, the number of business owners, when I say we're doing a casual tool and they, they, they, you know, they sound like a pirate. Like the, the, you know, the, the swears come out and that, you know, it's very passionate because it's very personal, but they really struggle with understanding it. And a big part of it is it business owners to often think it's a foregone conclusion that they're just sort of carried along with the wave and there's nothing they can do about it. And at times I've had business owners tell me to my face, I just, I just don't want to know. I don't want to face it. And then I kind of go to that bus analogy and say, you know what, if you step off in front of the bus, you're getting hit when you step off the curb and the bus three blocks away, uh, that time gives you options.

BB: 20:50 And that's the big difference. And when, when the business owner starts to understand that there might not be a foregone conclusion, like if I have time and I kind of know what school, you know, and, and especially if I've got someone that kind of keeping watch over things and helping me and they're asking me those questions and kind of saying, Hey, what's going on here? And, and, and giving me that early warning system, things can be done. Very, very likely can be done. And that's where the business owners is. Like once they get over that home, then they're starting to go, wow, this is, there's a lot of good info here. How do I get to that next step? How do I, how do I figure out how to make, you know, my million bucks a year, my 2 million bucks to whatever it is and how do I grow?

BB: 21:29 And, and you know, some of these businesses are growing really, really quickly and that's just a complete feeling of out of control, uh, as well. And the bookkeepers in a perfect position to help them with that. Like I, you know, when I talk with business owners, sometimes they, the amount of money they're spending some times on their, on their, what they just kind of look at their tax return and it's kind of, they look at it as just one big thing. You know, they've got a bookkeeper, they send away a bunch of paper to, they don't see it til the end of the year. They talk to their accountant four months after year end. They get a few reports that tells them how they did in the past year, which really doesn't tell them much about this year. And then they go home and they've spent a whole pile of money. And then when I start saying like, man, you can get the right uh, cloud system put together, you get the right people helping you, they're going to save man.

BB: 22:20 Sometimes it's amazing the days of time in a month and then having actually the proper documentation and not proper records and everything's connected together. So suddenly they're like, Oh man, we're not losing these things. We're invoice who properly, we're invoicing faster. It helps their businesses from top to bottom and then they have this forward look of where they're going. And man, sometimes it doesn't cost them much more than they are paying before, but the bookkeeper is actually pricing based on the value and making significantly more. It's not hourly anymore. Now they're making really good dollar. They're offering a ton of value, they're serving many more clients and everybody is happy and is happening. Like we have partners that are doing this. We have partners that are, that are um, in exactly the situation. They're helping their clients, their clients are happy, they're onboarding people onto dry run and onto the cloud like every single week. And it's, they're, they're building their business at the same time and their clients are thrilled because they're getting this help that they need.

MP: 23:25 I think it's fabulous. It really is creating a huge opportunity. And, and there's a few things that we've talked about that I think are the opportunity, I mean your, your solution is something that every listener needs to take a look at. And we'll have links of course in the show to do that and we'll talk a little bit more about what the best route for them to take to learn more dry run is at the end. But this whole conversation even just pointed out like when, when our listener, when you are on in front of a client is, is slowing it down just a little bit and asking a couple of questions that can start to show you where the pain is for a business owner. So if for you blame when you, if we were to go on a time machine back to just around, you know, just around the 2007 mark where you're having this problem, what, you know, what would be, what would've been a question from a bookkeeper that would have highlighted the fact that you need to do some things or change some things in your business when you were signing the lease on your, on your sports car.

MP: 24:26 I don't think that's the time, but maybe a little after that for apps. But, uh, and I am curious to see what kind of sorts of paradise, but that's another conversation. So what are, what are some questions that your partners are asking their clients, their business owner clients that open up these kinds of conversations?

BB: 24:47 Well, you know, the, the, the most amazing thing things will probably shock you in the most is when I started dry run, I talked with the business owners, I built it for business owners and then found out later that it was such a great fit. And it just, no, this is, we're, we're approaching it the wrong way. Cause I didn't even realize that bookkeepers and accountants cared about this at all. Like that's how far off I wasn't. I've realized now that businesses a lot of times think the same thing. They have no idea that a bookkeeper that is especially like, you know, kind of in the cloud and understanding all of this and putting these systems together can help them with this stuff. And, but they trust them, they trust their bookkeeper, they trust their accountant, they, they, they, a lot of times the questions like, first of all, this is the sit down and saying, look, we're, we're here to help you.

BB: 25:32 The number one question that we always say is like, Hey, have you, have you like approach it as have you thought about this? Have you thought about, um, you know, cashflow it, what are some of the issues that you guys might be facing now we've made some resources up for this because having these conversations like, man, I can have them in my sleep cause I spend every day on this stuff. But we know it can be difficult to start those conversations. So we have a few things. We have one as a casual scorecard and this scorecard is just 10 questions on a scale, 10 questions on a scale that you can ask your customer. You can sit down with your client and kind of say like, let's take a look at your business and look at your, your risk in your inner cashflow and is in the entrepreneurs terms and in the thoughts that make sense to them.

BB: 26:19 And it's a great talking point. We also have, um, a document that like I mentioned, kind of going from crisis into reducing their risk and their need to setting those goals and then into a growth mode. Those are the four areas that, that, um, uh, really need to be addressed. And of course, if you get on the crisis mode is kind of those three areas you're just constantly dealing with. Um, another good way to open up conversations with you, with your clients. And we've got actually four or five different resources now, depending on where the client's at, what sort of industry, where their needs are, that can help open up those conversations. But the biggest thing is not just to say, hey, how's your cashflow? Because I guarantee you in an entrepreneur's mind, they're thinking, I got enough in the bag for Friday. They're, they're not thinking back to six months ago.

BB: 27:08 So you know, you really have to do more of a deep dive and start asking about, you know, have you, have you had, um, you know, shortfalls in the past or are you do get paid late a lot of times, you know, or if you're sending out invoices, that's probably the number one. Are you sending them out as soon as you can? What is delay in sending out those invoices? Are those invoices getting paid on time? Are you often times, you know, not paying your bills on time? You know, you and, and bookkeepers, of course, have access to a lot of really useful information. They can start to see right in that, you know, QuickBooks online account like, um, you know, how many of these invoices are these using invoices? Are they getting paid late? They can start to look at some of that and do a little bit of a, a diagnosis themselves.

BB: 27:51 But we find that there's particular industries are good places to start and ones that are, that are project-based that have highly variable income. They do send out invoices to get paid and they're awaiting payments, usually big invoices, they're paying big bills for materials or suppliers or contractor costs. Those are the types of industries or manufacturers where they may have more of a steady stream of income, but boy they have to have all that money upfront to build their product. Identifying some of those key issues. Uh, it can really help you identify who those prospects are, who those best leads are that you can, you should go talk with first. Um, and really like a, we kind of mentioned, um, a haven't even talked a little bit about dryer and just to give you a little idea what the reason we suggest you use dry run, it's going to save 80% of your time over using spreadsheets and your customers are gonna understand and love the forecast.

BB: 28:44 They're going to be completely up to date and it's a lot harder for them to break. They can't break an equation, that sort of thing. But most importantly, if you come to us and talk with us, we'd love to talk to you about drivers and kind of what we do. But we know first step first is we want to talk with you about how you can talk with your clients and we're, we're happy to like literally email these resources over to you guys and, and, um, uh, and actually talk with you about how you can open up these conversations with your clients because we know it's not necessarily always a comfortable saying or a an easy thing to do, but your customers that are, that are really challenged with cashflow. So you're going to love you Ford, they trust you. Um, it's just how, you know, how do you approach them? How do you open up the conversation? How do you focus in on those key issues that they face that you can really intervene and help

MP: 29:42 No. This to me hearing this, like the way I see it as being like crown zero huge opportunity is, is it's a great conversation starter. You're out networking, you're talking to somebody. It's like simple question. It's like, yeah, yeah, what's keeping you up at night? It's like, oh, this, that and everything. It's like, you know what? We find that cash is one of the key things that many business owners are not paying enough attention to can change the game of your business. I mean that saying just that is interesting. Tell me how to tell a story, whatever the case may be. Then a next step is simply let me come over and do a cashflow scorecard with you and we'll show you how great that, so you're providing a tool, I see you as a great tool in the tool belt of, of our listener that they could use to actually start sales conversations with, but then actually deliver something that's not going to be difficult to deliver.

MP: 30:37 You're saving a ton of time for that. For the bookkeeper. You're selling me saving a ton of time for the business owner and presenting it in a cloud-based tool that they can deliver greatness and that's going to lead to great referrals, you know, sustain business, all those good things. So we'll definitely have links to everything that you've said in the, in the show already blamed. It sounds like a great product. And I really encourage every listener to go and take a look at this. I see this, I've been saying this for a long time, that this is a heavily underutilized opportunity in the space. It's that people need to know that they might not know it. They know when they can't pay their staff, they get that maybe they don't know that that means cash flow because like you said, the cowboy entrepreneur, but businesses need to know and will sleep better. Your a new tagline could literally be, we are a better alternative than sleeping pills. The better alternative to sleeping pills. Right?

BB: 31:39 Yup. Yeah, that's, that's, that's absolutely they're there. And, and you know, like you kind of align, stay, you know, lying awake at night isn't always, um, I might run out of cash laying awake at night is, um, man, do I take the dive and hire these new people by the new piece of equipment by the new truck. Um, there's it boy across was a lot of areas. And, and sometimes we talk with business, you see say cashflow and they may kinda like go ahead, what do you mean? They're like, hey do you get paid late a lot? Oh yeah, I get paid late. A lot is killing me. Well that's cashflow, right? So sometimes it's even just the, the terminology but I think you hit the nail on the head and, and we would love everyone to come and visit us and talk with us. Take a look at our site. We've got a chat bubble right on our site. You can sign up for a demo. We'd love to talk with you and just sort of walk you through and show you the types of resources we have and how we can help you talk with your clients all the way through to why you know, we really believe driving is the absolute best product for, for saving you time, but also for having your customer love what you're, what you're delivering to them.

MP: 32:45 That's beautiful. Such a great opportunity. I'm so, so glad I met you, Blaine. And looking forward to learning more about dry run and how our listeners are using it. And I know we're not going to be, it's not going to be the last time we have you on the show. This is, this is very important to me because it helps small business in anything that, uh, that helps small business owners do better work, do a better job of what they're doing is a friend of the successful bookkeeper podcast. So thank you for generously giving us your time and I hope that our listeners will come and learn how they can utilize your services.

BB: 33:21 Thank you so much, Michael. I really appreciate it.

MP: 33:23 Beautiful. So that perhaps another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. To learn more about today's guest and to get access to all sorts of valuable free business-building resources, you can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com. Until next time,

MP: 33:37 goodbye.