EP108: Roger Pierce – How To Stand Out With Content Marketing

For busy business owners, writing blog articles is a hassle.

Writing business blogs can be time-consuming, expensive and tricky if you don’t know what small business owners want to read.

Our guest is one of Canada's top startup experts and he will help you get a fresh box of professionally written expert small business articles ready to post to your blog, newsletter, and social media channels.

Roger Pierce is passionate about helping people to start a small business. While creating and running 14 small businesses during the past 20 years, he learned first-hand what new business owners need to do to succeed.

Today, he focuses on one of his companies, BoxofBusinessBlogs.com which is used by bookkeepers and accountants to make their content marketing easier and more relevant.

During this interview, you'll discover...

  • What is content marketing

  • How it will help your bookkeeping business

  • Different marketing strategies that can positively impact your profitability

To learn more about Roger Pierce, visit here.

To view a free article about finding your ideal client, read this.

For Roger’s Facebook page, click here.

For his LinkedIn page, go here.

For his Twitter page, discover here.

To learn more about Box of Business Blogs, explore here.

For the Box of Business Blogs Facebook page, check this out.


Michael Palmer: 01:14 Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. I am your host, Michael Palmer, and today's show is going to be a great one. Our guest is one of Canada's top startup experts who has launched 14 businesses. Coauthored a book and trained thousands of entrepreneurs. He runs a content marketing agency, Pierce content marketing, which creates small business advice content for big brands including Scotia Bank, sage, Mastercard, and Rogers. Today our conversation will focus on his company box of business, blogs.com, which is used by bookkeepers and accountants to make their content marketing easier and more relevant. Roger Pierce, welcome to the podcast.

Roger Price: 01:58 Thank you so much, Michael. Nice to be here.

MP: 02:05 It's great to have you, you know, and we've known each other actually for a very long time and have some interwoven connectedness, uh, with one of our past guests, Mark Bowden, which is how we came to having a conversation to have you on the podcast, which I'm so excited about because I think what you have to share is going to be very valuable to our listeners.

RP: 02:22 I hope we can offer some insights and some helpful tips in terms of content marketing for sure.

MP: 02:27 Yes, absolutely. Now, Roger, before we get into all of those wonderful ideas, thoughts, and actions that our listeners can take, tell us a little bit about yourself and your career leading up to this point.

RP: 02:39 Absolutely. Thanks for the opportunity. Up until now, I have been a lifelong entrepreneur. I owned 14 small businesses, so I've never really had an honest job. Michael, I started my first business right out of school and now we're a businesses marketing and advertising. I went a trade show company, I own the billboard company. What else do we have? A media buying service and a couple of others in there. But around the year 2000, I got really involved with government contracts through one of my companies, a marketing agency at the time. And the government office asked us to put together a program to help a young entrepreneurs or help people learn more about entrepreneurship, how to start a business, what's involved, what are the costs, that kind of thing. And um, we put together this great little program called exploring entrepreneurship and basically involved going around to high schools, colleges and universities.

RP: 03:43 And we hired a bunch of speakers and trainers, set them up with laptops and projectors, I think slides back then and we gave presentations on what it's like to run a business and how to get started. Basically, there was a website too that backed up the whole thing, so a young person and graduating from high school or graduating from college or university could go out and find information about, hey, what's this career path called entrepreneurship? Because at the time there was a void. There was a lot of industry professionals out there talking about careers and nursing or trades or engineering or becoming a doctor or a lawyer. Those groups were well represented, but it wasn't anyone's thinking too much about entrepreneurship. So that led to a series of companies. I co-founded a company in 2003 called dislodge, which I sold to my partner back in 2011 biz launch was a small business training company.

RP: 04:36 I think you and I met sometime around that period to Michael and we provided small business training and seminars and webinars for small business owners, so it included a 30-hour course someone could take if they wanted to start a business. We also offered 90 minutes seminars and webinars on specific small business topics. Towards the end of that time at this launch we got into content marketing, some of our sponsors of the training programs like visa and bell said, Hey, could you guys do some articles for our website? We'd love to share your expertise with our audience. And we said, of course. And we took their money and we made articles and things for corporate websites and that kind of got me into the whole content marketing of small business topics. So today, peers, content marketing, and my other company, box of business blogs, that's all we do. There's content marketing focuses on content items, which I'll explain what those are in a minute. For big brands, like you mentioned, banks, sage, FedEx, mastercard, we've worked with staples, et cetera. In the past and box of business blogs is more of a service for the actual small business owner, primarily bookkeepers and accountants where they could go in and subscribe for a very few dollars a month and get, um, articles that they can post in their social media

RP: 05:58 channels. So he takes all that worry away from, you know, where am I gonna find the next topic? Because every week he'll be sent a fresh article that you could use in your social media on your blog or your newsletter. So that's a roundabout a story. Michael I sort of explain how it got to where I am today. I am a small business expert. I firmly believe everyone should start a small business. I do my best to support small business owners out there through, through my work. But really our, our company now is all about bridging that gap between big corporations and small business owners. And big companies are very interested in content marketing because they see it as a cost effective way and a thought leadership path to engage small business owners. And we want to help small business owners succeed through content. And we do that through our content. We'd love to put advice and information into our different materials that the brands can then run with in post. So in a way we're reaching a much larger, larger audience by working with companies that have big platforms and I could working directly with small business owners for my own platforms. So it works out pretty well.

MP: 07:04 I just love your, your backstory in the rich deep experience learning, you've been there, you've done it and evolved to now being able to do what you're doing today and we love anyone that supports small business. So I know our listeners are loving the fact that we are having this conversation because they are, they are you and there are also people that can really, I think benefit from learning from you and and as well you've, you've worked a lot with organizations that are in the bookkeeping and accounting space. You're, you're currently doing a lot of work with sage, is that correct?

RP: 07:48 That's correct. Sage has been a client now for, I'm going to say three years. And our work with stage includes content to help them market products such as sage 50 to small business owners, but also we're working with sage accounting solutions and the sage accountants network across North America developing content and programs to help them help their clients, which are bookkeepers and accountants. So one of those examples, Michael is a for about a year and half now, but we're running a webinar program called sage marketing webinars for accountant counting professionals. And these webinars are free. Sage broadcast them out to their database and bookkeepers and accountants can join the webinars and learn topics like how to use social media to grow your practice, how to make your practice stand out in the marketplace, how to, uh, do most of the marketing things you need to do. We also have one on improving your sales techniques.

RP: 08:47 One of my favorite topics recently was finding your ideal client. And it talks about, you know, what, how do you a profile a client. Let's take a look at what your ideal clients are. Now let's make a profile of that client or persona and let's figure it out. I'll plan to engage more people just like them because then as you as you know, most bookkeepers have a preferred type of customer. They would like Moro, someone who pays the bills on time as cooperative, someone organized, et Cetera. So those are the types of topics that we're doing in this webinar program with sage. And I'll say just doing what it can get out there and reaching small business owners and bookkeepers and accountants and we think content marketing is the best way we can support them.

MP: 09:37 Awesome. And that we will have definitely links to for our listeners, I'm sure there's many listeners going, where do I find that? How do I get more information? So the link will definitely be in the show notes. Uh, and I allow Viejo your, you're helping an organization stimulate really the usage in small business of their products of that bookkeepers that work with sage 50 can actually have customers to go and work with. So you're, you're, you're helping all in many of our listeners right now, you know, it's one of those things that most people would probably not even be aware of, but there's many people that are in the ecosystem of business and how business gets fulfilled and marketing and how it gets sold. So interesting from that perspective. But let's get into content marketing. So many of our bookkeepers may not even know what content marketing really is. So what is it?

RP: 10:32 Good question, great place to start. There's lots of different definitions, you know, to me, the simplest one, it's about demonstrating your expertise, sharing information, providing helpful tips and advice and, you know, not being salesy, not focusing on the pitch just yet. So for example, a blog as a form of, of content infographic, you know, a visual rule, illustration

RP: 11:02 of a topic, uh, certainly short videos. You can pick up your iPhone and or whatever and take a quick video of yourself and offer a tip. Talk more about that later. Uh, ebooks are very popular. I'm sure most of your listeners have a onepoint downloaded a free flashy ebook in exchange for their email address. That's a form of content and thought leadership articles, which are longer pieces on more weighty topics. And the trick of mode content marketing is you don't want to be too salesy. Like I mentioned earlier, this is different from advertising. This is a form of marketing. Advertising is when you pay for an ad and a radio station or a newspaper or a magazine, TV or even online, and it's pretty blamed. Buy from us, buy from us, buy from us, content marketing, seek to add value to the prospect. First seeks to differentiate your brand through some soft leadership, uh, seeks to share expertise.

RP: 11:56 In other words, you're giving before you get the sale you're giving before you get the sale. And I really believe in that philosophy. You know, consumers and business owners out there are inundated with pitches left, right? And Center, excuse me, how many times does your email box fill up with pitches, Michael, on a, on a daily basis? Um, you know, we get tons of spam stuff and, and we're inundated. So anything that helps a seller like a bookkeeper stand out by providing some thought leadership, like giving something first, um, is going to separate them up. So a bookkeeper can do a number of things and we'll, we'll give some concrete tips in a minute, but really content marketing should be part of an overall marketing strategy. I never say do one thing only focused entirely on content, but for example, you might decide that you know, half of your efforts are going to be on content marketing, maybe 30% are going to be on paid advertising online, like pay per click ads or Facebook ads. And maybe another 20% is going to be through referral marketing or networking. So really content marketing should be considered as part of an overall mix.

MP: 13:04 Yeah. And those percentages would definitely be up for discussion depending on what market you're in, what stage of business you're in and all sorts of thoughts and ideas. But content marketing should be definitely one of those things I believe everyone should be thinking about. And so really the point is attracting clients. How do you think content marketing helps a bookkeeper attract clients? You've mentioned a little bit about that, but is there, have you seen specific examples of where bookkeepers and accountants have been using it? That that's, they've said, wow, like, look at this. This is just attracting clients for us.

RP: 13:42 Ooh, you know, I can inundate you with lots of stats about the effectiveness of content marketing, but I won't do that. You raised a couple of good points. First of all, then I'll address this. You know, why? Okay, now that I understand what is content marketing, now let's talk about why. Why should I bother? Um, content marketing is way less expensive than traditional forms of marketing and advertising. So, you know, that's a big one. Writing an article and sharing it through Facebook, Twitter, linkedin,

RP: 14:10 an image on, on Instagram, doing a quick little youtube video or something. Those things are, are mostly far less expensive than say, buying ads in a magazine, which most small business owners can't afford. Spending lots of big bucks on a fancy, expensive website. Um, certainly doing direct mail. I mean all these things cost a lot of money, which the small business owner may not have a lot up. So content marketing is far less expensive and it's effective. I mean, you know, we've got lots of stats. Things like content marketing can generate over three times as many leads as outbound marketing and typically cost 62% less. That's according to the content marketing institute. So it's far less expensive and it's effective. It works. I'll give you an example in terms of a bookkeeper. So let's say a bookkeeper offers some tips through their blog. Perhaps the article is about, you know, three easy ways to organize your, your documents for tax time.

RP: 15:11 So that's a good kind of piece for a bookkeeper. It's relevant to what they do. It's offering some advice and sharing some thought leadership and you know, it helps the business owner who's going to read that save time and maybe save some money. Those are things entrepreneurs are looking for online entrepreneurs, by the way, what they searched for topics online's about marketing and sales, how to make money. Then let's search for topics on online, how to estate save time and save money, and how to be more efficient. So three easy ways to organize your life for tax time and you offer those three tips and maybe you talk a little bit about using software or using an app like sheep bank or how to organize physical receipts, doing it well in advance, whatever the tip might include that you post that article, post that blog on your website, and it's easy to put something up.

RP: 16:00 Most website services these days have a built in blog publishing platform, or you can use something like WordPress that attaches pretty easily to most things. And then you start to share it to your Facebook channel, your, your LinkedIn channel or Twitter feed, and any other challenges you might, you might have as well. And what happens is, you know, someone will read that article and go, oh, this is a useful tip, and then they'll share it out to their network. So that's one thing that traditional advertising can't do. It's very unlikely someone's going to cut out the ad from a magazine that you paid $5,000 for and share it with all their friends, right. By social media because it's digital makes them so easy. Just click, click, click. Before you know it, you've amplified your reach. And I think that's very attractive and very powerful for, for small business owners, especially bookkeepers because we're all looking for cost effective ways to get the word out about our conversion.

MP: 16:59 Yeah,

MP: 17:00 you and beautiful and, and it is getting the word out, but there's as well as you've mentioned, it's also being valuable to people, which puts you on the right footing for doing business with somebody. They get to know, they're getting to know you and they're getting value from you before they maybe even have met you or interacted with you. They're already a, the bank of value's already been. Couple of, uh, dollars had been dropped in that bank. And so anybody who comes at you from a content marketing place is going to be in a better place than many other forms pay per click. Um, you know, advertising a, even a referral, right? Uh, so I think that that part of it is really exciting. Now, many bookkeeping business owners don't have a lot of time and, and maybe even the writing, because I know enough to know about content marketing, that not all writing is going to be valuable. It takes, it does take a little bit of talent to create this type of content and then there's, you gotta implement it. You've got to get it out into the world. How can they overcome some of these barriers?

RP: 18:12 What you're talking about there is what's gonna be my content marketing strategy and how do I have enough time in my day to stick to it? And you've raised some good points. So just some basic, basic advice to begin with. Number one, making a commitment to content marketing as part of your overall marketing strategy. That's key. So let's say you decide you're going to do an article a week, okay? You're going to allow an hour, perhaps a week to write that article. Or if you want to use a service like ours, selfless plug here for box of business blogs.com but we'll send you the article ready to post. And by the way, a good article Michael should be, I'd say three to 500 words. This shouldn't be an essay. It should be short and sweet to the point. Lots of white space, lots of bullets, small business owners love to read, you know, quick points or tough three lists or four or five points or five ways to set aside money for taxes or three ways to see them for your receivables.

RP: 19:16 Those types of things are what entrepreneurs will respond to you. So you write up the piece and when it's all done, you edit it a bit. Do you want to pay careful, close attention to the headline because think of your own online behavior. We serve through the web and we click on headlines that are catchy. That's the old newspaper trick. If the headline doesn't work, the rest of it is kind of moved. So spend some time on the headline. You can actually look at some sites on the web that that'll give you tips and advice on how to improve or make your headline more juicy. It is important to be catching things like you know, three ways to speed up your receivables is a, is a, is a great topic to, to run with. So you've got the great headline, you've got an article, maybe three to 400 words inside the article.

MP: 20:04 By the way, at the end it's okay to put a link to your website or your landing page or whatever you want the entrepreneur to click through next because after I've read that article, I want to know how to make contacts. You could even just put it on the bottom. This article provided courtesy of agency bookkeeping services. You can reach us that that's fair game to the point is you don't want to make it salesy. You want to put the content first, but certainly provide a link at the bottom that'll take them back because this is going to go to the end of the online university. You want to make sure there's lots of ways for people to reach you. So you've got that article, you post it on your blog or your website or on your wordpress site, and then you start to share it around, share it with a click of a button on Twitter and Linkedin, Facebook, unless you've got some images, put it on Instagram, you're doing a little video.

RP: 20:51 Of course, that's a separate topic, but it's easy to put up on youtube and you share it around and that should take it no more than an hour. If you're not a writer, you've got options. You can, like you said, Prebuy logs from a service like ours. You can hire a freelance writer, or here's a trick. Maybe someone in your office is a better writer than you are or has more time to write stuff that you do. So you share that out and that's just one hour of original content. But here's the thing, you don't need to just do your own content. You can create or curate content from other sources. So I often say to people, look, if you're planning to post something every day, don't think you have to write five pieces of original content. That's a lot of work. Think about writing one original article a week, but you just described doing four days of curated content, meaning sharing other people's content. This accomplishes some of the same effect that positions you as a thought leader. Provide some value to your prospects and it sure is a heck of a lot easier in creating content from scratch. So you know, bullet mark some of your favorite sites to do with taxes or business practices and things like entrepreneur or inc or fortune or any of those types of sites because there's a ton of stuff up there ready to share

RP: 22:03 and all you have to do is click on the link, it shares it to Facebook and add a little note saying, hey, I found this really helpful if you're starting your business, or hey, here's a piece though how to sell your business. Or Hey, here's a great article about preparing for tax time and boom, you do that. All of a sudden you got up on a content strategy in play. But here's where most business owners fail, Michael. It's just a frequency of it all. They get tired, they get distracted and distracted, they give out. I understand that there's a lot of work running a small business. I've had lots of them.

RP: 22:34 So consistency is key because once I start to engage with your content on Twitter or Linkedin or

RP: 22:40 Facebook, I'm going to expect the same thing again. If you're posting on a Tuesday, I want to see that post again on next to thing. I'm on Linkedin, I'm actually gonna look for it. That's how you build an audience. That's how you start to get people interested in your business and that's how you engage. So you've got to allow some time and most importantly, be consistent. And I think it's key. Again, just to keep it simple, an hour a week and maybe 15 minutes a day, all you need to do, I develop your social media profile and to start to build that inbound funnel

RP: 23:13 in the I, I. D I would imagine, and I've had these conversations with many bookkeepers that that's it. No, I don't have the time, but you've laid out a very, I think, straight forward approach to being able to a number one budget to start doing it. But I, I will, I will also highlight that it's, it is really all about the consistency. And I think that could, we could probably say that around every, almost every aspect of the business, right? As if you're going to do something, do it, do it right. Don't do everything but do the important things. Do them right and do them the same way all the time and be, be consistent with that. That leads to longterm results. This is content marketing is not a, Hey, I dropped a post and got business today. It's not like fishing where you throw a hook at a warm into the lake and, and you know, within a few hours you're pulling out dinner.

MP: 24:05 This is a, Oh, uh, you're investing, it's more like farming, right? We're investing planting seeds, but those, that farming, it's like an orchard versus like a corn crop, right? You're planting an orchard that's going to have multiple years of bounty coming at you if you do the work and invest that time. So I really love it and I think you're making it very straight forward and simple. And I love the fact that you've, you've built an organization, a company that delivers on a need for our listeners, which is they don't have a lot of time. Their core competency maybe isn't writing. So box of business blogs brings fresh, relevant content that is can be very useful, which I love. Now, one thing that comes up in my mind and I'm sure probably has come up in the listener's mind as we're listening is what if somebody is already writing the three steps or the five steps in? It's been done. It's been said before. I can imagine, and I've, I've experienced that myself when I'm coming up with content. It's like, oh well somebody has already written this. What, what do I do now?

RP: 25:09 Very good question. And here's the thing. It's hard to come up with absolutely original unpublished previously topics, right? We'll keepers and accountants will know that painfully well. There's a lot of stuff out there on cashflow. For example, I can't tell you how many times or you've written about cashflow from different angles for companies large and small. And it's a challenge to come up with, you know, uh, interesting angles, but an article on three ways to improve your cashflow. For example, that you, right, you might do a better job sharing it out there than perhaps someone using the exact same title. It might be on page 10 of a Google search, which no one's gonna see, right? Or it might be something that was published a couple of years ago and therefore it's not really up top on the search rankings. I often recommend that you search for a title first on Google to see if anyone else is using that exact same title. And if it's a big media company like a fortune or a Forbes or entrepreneur or a Roman male or whatever, and change your title, you don't want to compete with that kind of online muscle. So you come up with a different angle to it, you know, three ways to improve your cashflow for your service based business. Or this summer embraced three ways to improve, prove your cash flow is he just come up with slightly different variations. So the topic and remain attacked, but you're not gonna compete head to head with those existing titles a lot

RP: 26:44 of, and the content probably could have a similar, he could, I attack it the same. Similar way in that the content could come from you know what to do when it's summer around that particular topic or find some other angle that you weave into the topic that makes it more unique towards your, your readers or your, whoever's going to consume that content and for yourself.

RP: 27:07 Seasonality is a great way to mix it up. I forgot to mention one key point too and, and I think you, and you mentioned it there a second ago, but profile your audience profile, your target customer. I mentioned earlier some of the work we're doing for sage and we did this to this Webinar or on finding your ideal client and that's really what it's all about for social media to before you begin to write anything, before you make any videos, before you create any infographics, you've really got to start with your end reader or user in mind. So who is that person or that company you're trying to attract? Are they local? Do they earn $100,000 or less? Do they earn a hundred thousand to a million dollars? How big is their operation? Do they have five employees or 50 you know, what industry are they in? All these things are going to help you shape the content and develop the content specifically for them, so addresses their pain points and therefore increases the chances of them reading it.

RP: 28:03 Next, you want to make sure you build your online audience, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, et cetera around those target markets. So if I'm trying to get more business in the transportation industry, the trucking companies, I'm going to make sure I follow all of those people on Twitter and get, find out their Twitter handles and do a little bit of digging and make sure that I've got them on my social media channels and see if they can follow me back. Right. It's also okay to send out your blog of catering to the trucking industry to that association or to people in that, in that industry and say, hey, here's a piece I thought you might be interested and maybe they'll start to sign up to your social media channels as well.

MP: 28:45 Yeah, those are some great, great ideas. Great thoughts. And I'd really like to make sure we get the link to that Webinar that was done on finding your ideal, uh, ideal customer because I mean, I think that's almost, should be required training before anybody does anything in business. I mean, whether it's what we're talking about today, content marketing, but how you serve your clients, how you do all, I think about all, all aspects of your business. The more you can be clear on who you're serving, the easier business will be for yourselves. Now, Roger, we, we've been really dipping our toe in the pool of content marketing as well. I know of a an accountant in Australia who has built marketing content programs for like a book and you've mentioned some of these books, podcasts, all sorts of other things. Like there's all sorts of content that can be created, but this is really the pathway into all of that and I think applies to, you know, a unique business and a unique person that wants to go that angle, but it can be very powerful. Do you have any examples that you'd like to share in terms of bookkeepers or accounts? Yeah, like what have you seen in terms of people taking it, that next step where it's like, well, we're putting out a little bit of content and some blogs. What, what have you seen in terms of books or podcasts or, or anything like that in the industry?

RP: 30:08 Well, this is a very podcast you're doing right now is an example of content marketing for sure. I mean, I know it's a lot of undertaking to set up a podcast and keep it going and you have to do it every week to build your audience. But what a great value added service you're providing to your clients, your customers, bookkeepers, I mean, that's a great example right there. I know you're talking with one of my, my friends and colleagues, Andrew Wall and the next couple of months and he's an owner of a Toronto based accounting and bookkeeping firm called wall CPA and he actually has won some awards across Canada for being a one of the topic intellectual apple, keeping an accounting firms in Canada and he just dominates social media, tens of thousands of Twitter followers and Linkedin, et cetera. But his platform, his video, he loves to do videos, right? He provides video tips.

RP: 31:00 So there's an example of someone kind of doubling down on a particular type of content. I think that's key as well. Just like you're doubling down on podcasts and spending a lot of your time and energy on that and it's working out well for you. Andrew Wall and his firm are, are focusing on videos and social media. Other people I know might say, you know what, I'm not so good on video. I podcast kind of scare me. I'm just going to focus on articles. Other people might want to do simple, um, graphics or even things like online webinars. So there's lots of different options and I think it's important to play to your strengths. Look, I know a bookkeeper or a small business owner, it doesn't have tons of resources to try all these different content marketing options, but pick one that you think is best for you and pick one that you know is going to resonate with your target audience and maybe pick one that your competitors down the street aren't doing. So if a affirm down the road is really big on, on videos, maybe you can start to dominate two really good thought leadership articles.

MP: 32:02 Beautiful. You know, Roger, we could probably go on talking about this plus plus plus plus. Plus. I'm gonna love to have you back to talk more about small business and marketing. And you know, there's probably a whole host of things that we can, we can go into that or are going to help our listener do better each day in their businesses, but before we say goodbye, tell, tell our lists are a little bit about where they can find out more about you and as well if they want to engage with you, what's the best way to do that?

RP: 32:36 Absolutely. I think the best website to go based on our top

RP: 32:39 today would be www.boxofbusinessblogs.com that's the service I mentioned that provides a weekly email with a fresh 500 word article on a business topic design or small business leaders. Salts are perfect for bookkeepers and accountants and financial advisors. Added costs. Just $39 a month and I get you a blog a week. If you don't like a topic, you can send it back and we'll send you a replacement blog at no charge. That's worth checking out. I love it if I'd love it, if your followers would follow me on Twitter too. My handle is at Roger Pierce and of course, I'm also on LinkedIn. Twitter, Roger Pierce, he's checked me out anytime.

MP: 33:20 Thank you so much. And of course, we'll have all of those links and contact pieces of information on the show notes so that you can go and start doing that. Roger, this has been a treat. Thank you so much for generously giving us your time and your expertise and sharing it with our listener.

RP: 33:40 Thank you so much, Michael. It's been fun.

MP: 33:43 Yes, and we'll definitely have you back very soon. I hope your bet. Well, that wraps another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. To learn more about today's guests and to get access to all sorts of valuable free business-building resources, you can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com until next time

MP: 33:56 goodbye.

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