Resilience is the key to dealing with change, stress and adversity.
Whether you are an entrepreneur who wants to make more money and experience more success, an individual looking for professional development program or an organization interested in giving your employees new skills and tools to work more effectively, our returning guest has the information to help everyone become more resilient.Facilitator, coach, speaker, sales consultant and author, Cindy Stradling brings over 25 years of practical hands on business experience to her work.
She has developed unwavering resilience through her journey and has developed her sales and resilience programs to show others how they can too.
During this interview, you'll discover...
The keys to lasting resilience
The right tools you can thrive in times of change
How to develop new coping techniques needed when life throws you a curveball
To learn more about Cindy Stradling, visit here.
For her Twitter page, click here.
For her LinkedIn page, visit here.
For the link to her program, visit here and you can take advantage of the early bird pricing by using the code: ATHENA.
Michael Palmer: 01:11 Welcome back to The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. I am your host, Michael Palmer, and today's show is going to be awesome. We have a returning guest who is a resilience coach and accomplished speaker and author. She works with entrepreneurs, individuals, and corporations such as 3m Canada, Scotia, McCloud and CIB c to do what's needed personally to get where they need to go. Cindy straddling, welcome back to the podcast.
Cindy Stradling: 01:40 Thank you so much, Michael. I enjoyed it so much that I was so happy that you invited me to come back.
MP: 01:45 Well, I know that you're probably just going to keep on coming back because I love having you on and I know our listeners have said they love having you on because you've done so much in your life and you're just constantly doing new things and bringing more value and especially to a big part of our audience who are females. You have, we're going to get into that, into this episode. You, you make a really massive difference for a lot of women in business, so I'm so excited, but for those that have not heard your last episode, tell us a little bit about your career background up until this point.
CS: 02:24 Okay. Michael, I only admit to 25 years in sales. I've been in sales for a very, very long time. I've been running my own training and development and coaching business for 14 years. And prior to that I sold a rewards and recognition. I sold books. Um, I shouldn't call them books, binders and presentation packaging. And you know, the truth is we're all in sales. No matter how you look at it, whether we formally go into sales, you know, B are going to go to, you know, take your bag and go out and sell something or get on the phone and try to sell something. It's something that is becoming more and more to me, prevalent. The everything that we do is, as long as we're influencing people, as long as we're sharing and we're wanting people to come to our site or an agreement with whatever was going on, it's really, I think we're all in sales and I'm just finished reading.
CS: 03:17 The book to sell is human by Daniel Pink. And it really, when you think about it, you're in sales. Your bookkeepers are all in sales. They're always selling their ideas. They're, they're selling their services, they're selling their ideas to their kids. And so, um, I'm really, really excited to, to, to share everything that I've learned over the years, which is I've done a lot of training. I have my, um, CSP through the Canadian professional sales association. I'm actually also one of their certified trainers. I've also got my certification through Erickson College for coaching. And that, as you know, is one of the ways that each and every person can excel and go beyond wherever they think they can go.
MP: 04:01 Yeah, absolutely. Well, you've really made it your, your career in terms of helping yourself be a better salesperson, but as well now helping so many others. And I love how you've brought all of your different experiences together, whether it be the coaching, the, the selling, the presenting. I mean, you're an accomplished, uh, award-winning speaker as well. Uh, but you're bringing all of this to now delivering and helping, uh, women actually excel in sales.
CS: 04:35 Yep. 100%. And I, you know, I don't want to say that men are better or women are better, but I think from an empathy perspective, I think that women generally have, and this is a generalization, but women in general have a just more empathy when it comes to consultative sales. When we're talking about consultants as sales and women often don't even think about sales as a career to be honest with you. And so when, when I started to talk to them and they see the freedom, there's so much freedom around sales and there's so much opportunity to, to advance and make a great income, they open rate up and they really take, take it to heart. And they've, a lot of them have taken my course. The last uh, program we ran, one of the girls literally changed her whole career. She said, didn't 10 years in business.
CS: 05:27 She hadn't done any active sales training. And she said, actually it, she caught it at call it a game-changer. And periodically she still sends me emails. I can't believe I did this. I got, I closed this. So it's really a boat having the confidence. I may think that I'm for women and I know that few my conference and, and through just my own personal development, sometimes we don't give ourselves enough credit that we can do though a lot of things, not just sales. And I think that is through, you know, Professional Development and Training and coaching that people can actually do whatever they want.
MP: 06:02 Yeah. Which is exciting. And you know, for our listeners it's likely one of those areas that it comes up and it's like probably that I'm not that good at it or I don't want to do it. Um, but when you start to talk about, wow, what if you just improved a little bit the impact that would have on the bottom line, on the satisfaction of, of the work. I mean, it's incredible. Um, I've, I've known you for a very long time and you've always been someone who's doing great work and you've spent a lot of time in the last several years inspiring female entrepreneurs with your various programs. Now recently your work with TD bank, they actually surprised you with a gift to your organization of $50,000. Tell us more about that.
CS: 06:52 Well, I have to tell you that was a total and complete shock. TD was running a national campaign and they were recognizing local heroes and I didn't even realize I was nominated. I was just ended up in the conversation with my bank manager and her boss and there was four people come in the room and they started asking me questions and I qualified. And so what they were looking for was people that make a big difference in their own community and you know, through the women that come through our women moving forward conference. It's like I said on my video, I think the biggest thing that a lot of them get is hope. A lot of women have faced various challenges, whether it's employment challenges, whether it's physical challenges, whether it's, you know, they've had difficult relationships, whatever the is. Our conference is a day of celebration, so we've had it for six years and so be literally impacted.
CS: 07:47 I figure between 450 to 500 women's lives and the walk away feeling more confident. They take on new jobs. One lady in particular, she was coached by one of our current volunteer coaches and she worked for, the government, knew him and I don't remember exactly her position, but she moved up to levels and was actually able to by her ex husband out so she could keep her kids in the matrimonial home. For stories like that are just so inspiring and that's what I love to do and all that I do. So whether it's a sales edge, a training program, whether it's the women moving forward, whether it's, you know, the work that I do with the Scarborough women's center or women's place at the YWC, it doesn't matter. I, for me, I get the greatest joy out of sharing something maybe that I've learned and see someone else excel. I think that that's the greatest gift to anybody is to be able to contribute to someone else's development.
MP: 08:55 Yeah. You know,
MP: 08:56 it just gives me goosebumps hearing you talk about it. And you know, I was just thinking about you the other day and I thought it, Oh, you're the type of person that if I were to explain to somebody, well what's Cindy like? You're the type of person that's really just out there looking to help people as best you can. It's still like delivering value to people everywhere, whether you're being paid for it or not, you're always delivering value. And I think such a such a refreshing, I think that's probably why we've been friends for so long and why I just adore you is that that's the kind of person that you are, is you're just looking to make a difference in the world any way you can. And and so you've worked really hard to get there. You've had ups and downs in your life and now you're giving back to, to people that maybe are on a down place in their life and you're helping them lift up their lives.
CS: 09:47 And you and I are both on the same page when it comes to you're the same way, Michael, you've got a big heart and you deliver beyond, beyond value. I know that when you first started coaching, you coach one of my good friends and it changed his life. So, and you were getting paid very minimal amount of money, so it wasn't about the money at that particular time. So I think we're cut from the same cloth. And you were like that with your customers too, that you know, it's not about selling to them. It's about actually contributing to their lives so that they have freedom to be able to do the things that they want in their lives and their businesses. A vehicle to do that.
MP: 10:23 Absolutely. Well, thank you for saying that. It's always nice to hear the words and uh, but this is, this is more about you and this podcast interview. Uh, but, uh, it is so interesting and, and that's, you know, all of our listeners, I mean often forget that they're doing something so honorable, which is, which is helping small business owners get more clear and empowered around their finances. And when they do that, you know, it makes a big, big difference. In fact, probably you have no idea how big that difference is. So, you know, it's the long, the same train of thought and that you're helping the community and that's, if you're doing that and you're making a living doing it, well my goodness, what a great place to be. What a wonderful opportunity that every day a bookkeeper can wake up and be able to help small businesses be stronger.
CS: 11:16 I mean, it's just, I love it and I love helping. I love that my life is to completely designed around waking up and all I have to do is figure out how to help bookkeepers be more successful in their business. So it's, it's, it's cool enough about that though. Let's, let's get into giving them some things that it's going to really help them rev up their own sales. You have a program called the sales edge and I love that name and it's a three-day sales training program. Tell me some of the content that would be useful to our community to take up their sales and really get their own sales edge.
CS: 11:52 Well, I partnered with my
CS: 11:54 sister on this one. She retired a few years ago and she has just as many years of experience and training and, and um, she just is excited and she's comes from the same cut from the same class. We both really want to help people and help them make a difference in their lives. And what, when we design the program, and I've done tons of training as you know, from, for other diff, different companies at schools. And the one thing I believe and Susan believes with me is the foundation piece at the very beginning is the most important part. So we said spend a good part of the first day on mindset and understanding some of the means and some of the, even the vocabulary around sales that give people that yucky feeling that they don't want to do it. And when, when we can have them shift, when they really get their value and they really get that they can make a difference for their customers, it changes everything for them. It's like they're really excited to, to pick up the phone or send the email or whatever it is. And I think that really, you know, getting down to listening, like actually this a couple of the exercises we do around really, really listening. Like you remember global ears listening when we were in alright.
CS: 13:06 So we have them actually do that and with their body language and things like that, we, we helped them with their communication, even their tone of their voice, like if their, if their voice sounds really tough and or, or too high and squeaky and we work with them on, on a very personal level and they walk away with everything is so customized and so personal to them. And I think that's what helps them have the confidence because it, it, they create it with us. We helped them create it together. Um, but it's based on all of the principles in our processes, but it's all customized. So that people will walk away. I think it's like anything when they became a bookkeeper or you become anything when you're first learning. It's that whole unconscious incompetence thing. And as you do things and you get repeating and repeating and repeating, you actually get it to become unconsciously competent.
CS: 13:58 So you start doing things without even realizing it. And we all know there's no growth without coming out of your comfort zone. If you're staying in your comfort zone, you're doing what you're always doing, you're going to get what you've always gotten. So we really work in that area that we pushed people, not a lot, but push them baby steps to get outside of their comfort zone to try things on. I'll give you a perfect example. So when you do a call to someone that you've never, I don't even like the word cold call, but you call them on the blue color color, the cold call if you like. And in the old days we used to ask them if it was a good time. Well, the truth is it's never a good time when you're calling in someone in it. Fun solicited. And if you call them, ask them if you caught them at a bad time, they will.
CS: 14:44 I've done it unanimously. There's the nobody ever, ever, ever say it was a bad time. Even when lady getting on an airplane for kind of loud a no, no, I got a couple of minutes. There's just something about it. As human beings, we want to be able to support each other at a very fundamental level and almost everybody, in fact, everybody has said I've got a couple minutes. And that gives you that little window of opportunity. You may not only get one or two minutes with them, but then if you can talk about value, ask them a couple of really good questions to find out if they'd be a really good prospect for you. Cause they may not be, not everybody is going to be. But if you could strategically set that up, that when you did speak with someone, you get that first initial foot in the door, which is sometimes the hardest part.
CS: 15:28 Then you got a, uh, an, an opportunity continues conversation at another time, whether it's a meeting or sending more information or whatever that is. So we're filled with all kinds of tips and tricks of things that I don't even think the word, tricks, techniques that aren't the sort of the status quo. And most, most of the people that have taken the course, I won't say everybody because people still get challenged by it by, by some of the things. And we work with them. And then some of them have hired us for coaching afterwards. But the most important thing is they walk away. And I said it before, it's confidence that they, they can see and they know if they do this repeatedly, there's going to be confidence because there's a right way and a wrong way to do everything right. And so it's really important that they have a process that they follow a process, but everything, their verbiage, all of that is customized for them so that it comes out natural and authentic. We don't, we, we teach them a little bit about scripting, but it's more about, uh, asking the right questions to get the information to be able to give them the right answers.
MP: 16:36 As you're speaking, I'm thinking, you know, like just this whole tips and tricks as well. Like it's common that we say tips and tricks, I mean are true. They are tips and tricks but at the same time, another way to think about it, I have a, a very close personal friend who is a master martial artist. And when I say that most people think of like Bruce Lee but he's he or like Chuck Norris or maybe people won't even think of those people, but uh, it's you think of like fighting and like, you know, you know, knives and all these crazy things and he is actually the more the artist of, of that kind of work and it's, he's, he teaches people, you could call them tips and tricks on self defense and as well just these sorts of things. But really the, there, it's, it's artistic movement that he's doing and it's like a dance.
MP: 17:25 If you were dancing with somebody, there would be moves that you would, you would learn and, and you would move, you know, you would practice those moves and you'd get better at those moves and you become more eloquent on your feet with those moves. It's so different. I think from what your, you're teaching, you're teaching people moves and, and you're, you're, you're allowing them to incorporate those moves in with their natural way of being. What would normally sound like or say with a few tweaks and a few, uh, modifications so that at some point through practice, through doing it, you actually are eloquent at it and have a really high, uh, result like at a, a risk desired result out of all of that work. I think that's the beauty of what you do is it's not just, oh, hey, go do these things. No, it's, go try these things, apply them, do the same thing, learn up a specific methodology that works that produces a consistent outcome, but make it custom or bespoke to yourself. The more you do it, the better you're going to be at it.
CS: 18:27 Hundred percent. And it's really about creating curiosity with each other. Like when you're, when you're talking to a client or a potential client, it's no different than if you met them at a dinner party. You ask questions, you start to learn about each other, just take all the stigma out of it. That's what I, where we really work, work on is that it's, it's as natural as breathing.
MP: 18:48 Mm. And that's, that's what I like to hear. And I think that's inspiring and exciting for our listener because if it's definitely one of those areas that we, I mean we've spoken to and surveyed, I mean we're in the thousands of bookkeepers. We understand one of those things that comes up is finding clients selling. It's a challenge. But the exciting part is that when you do something, it's not, it's not like there's some magical thing that needs to be done. There is a process, there are ways of doing these things. And if you get in and learn the way and you, you commit to doing it and you do it a little bit and a little bit more and a little bit more, it becomes natural. And if you can do that well that's a competitive advantage against the marketplace. And that's exciting.
CS: 19:35 Yeah, for sure. And like I said, once they've done it once or two, nothing feels better. Like then when you, when you've tried a new technique and it works, it's like so uplifting, you can't wait to do it again.
MP: 19:47 Hmm. So I completely agree. So let's do this. Let's focus on one of the areas of your three day program and, and, and arm our listeners with one thing that they can do differently today that's going to impact the way that they're selling out there in their lives. What, what, what, what would that be? What could we pay?
CS: 20:08 Well, I think one of the biggest things, and people are really surprised when we talk about it in the course is the objection handling. So there's so many unspoken objections, usually in the sales, and no, I won't say a percentage because I don't know for sure, but sometimes the objection is in our own head. And so we come into a situation where they won't buy or this to this, but there's two that, and my sister has her saying, don't be the buyer and the seller. And I think that you know, you need to be prepared for objections. Objections are just part of the process. In fact, if someone's just sitting there nodding their head and not having any dialogue with you, highly unlikely they're going to engage with you. But if they're asking questions and they're posing, you know, an objection. Now some people will be an automatic no, no matter what.
CS: 20:58 And then what you need to do is then you have to understand why they're saying no and what they're saying no to. Because sometimes it's not you and it never, ever, ever take it personally. It's not about you personally. At least I don't think it's ever about them personally. So the thing is, a lot of the times what we do is teach people and we'll, we do practice scripts and we do role plays is actually putting the objections up front. So the time and money are the biggest ones. So if you, if time and money are the biggest objections in, in, in you speaking with someone that at the very beginning of the conversation say, you know, it was pretty typical that people don't have the time or the money to spend on a program such as mine. As an example, if I was telling you my program, I'll say, but Michael for, could we just for a couple of minutes just to explore what it's all about and the value take away, and we'll put this back on the table, but let's just take a few minutes and just put that off the side. We'll park that and then we'll look at it later. Nobody's ever said to me, nope, we're only going to look at price right now. So what they'll do is then you show your value because people buy value. If everything was ever sold on price, it'd be no premium products.
MP: 22:06 That's right.
CS: 22:07 You can show value for whatever it is that you do. And for bookkeepers, I mean, I know from my bookkeeper it's like peace of mind. Like if I get something from the Cra, I don't worry anymore. I just take it to them. You know what I mean? So I've got that back up. I've got that confidence. But if I didn't have someone to trust, then I'd be just someone who would be confused. I've spent a lot of time with the phone and whatever. So I think from a book, bookkeepers perspective, when they really get their value and they really get what they, what they even save in terms of time and efforts and all the things that they can take care of for their clients, like money and time shouldn't even come into it.
CS: 22:49 No, it'll disappear. But what I love about the leading with those objections is that if they are, if we know that they are one of the most common objections, then we know that they're, that it's likely the person they're sitting in front of has that objection. And if it's not addressed, it's in the background, the entire conversation. In fact, you, you, you will not get full listening from someone because it's in there listening right now is they're thinking about eventually I have to ask about price and I have to, you know, time and whatever the objection is, that's what's there so that are fully present with the conversation with you. So even if you are demonstrating value, they're likely only getting a percentage of that, you know, do the communication because they're still hung up on price or whatever it is. I love how you worded that out, where just sort of parked it and what it does is now we'll, in that situation, I guarantee you that there's a whole new level of comfort for the person that you're sitting with because they feel like they've been heard because Anna and it's like it's magical because they didn't have to do anything.
CS: 23:59 They didn't have to really say much. It's really just yes, that is an objection. Okay, let's park that. We're going to come back to it and then it's almost, it could be forgotten. It's like kind of like, oh look there out the window that's gone by. It's like forgotten. So that objection could completely disappear because now they're going to be lost in your value
CS: 24:20 100% and the thing is to let them know, if this doesn't work for us, we'll then, you know, basically have it a no risk situation. That's one of the things that we encourage people to do as well. And I say that to my clients all the time, you know what, I may not have someone sense a fit for you right now. And if that's the case, I will recommend you to somebody else. It just takes it out of the way.
CS: 24:50 And the thing is in your own head too, because sometimes we come in and we think, oh well they have the budget or will they have this or will they have that? You know, just go with the intention of delivering value.
MP: 25:02 Yeah. Let's go back to that a bit because I want to explore that a little bit more for our listener, which is this whole concept of having these preconceived objections. Why do we have those preconceived objections?
CS: 25:16 Well, because of just the way we're programmed, the way the world is. I mean, even just think about sales in general, the means that have been alive for years and years, like prospect who wants to be a prospect or a target. Yeah. Maybe it's just some of the language around that. Now, we're not in any position to be changing hundreds of years of, of that kind of language, but when you think about it, that sets up all kinds of things. They may have had a rejection before they miss them in might've said no to them before and they took it personally. They have to, they then, what they have to do is look back at what they could've done differently. Cause I don't ever think that you lose, there's no such thing as failure. You just learning how to do it differently the next time. And I always say no only means no today. And I've got tons of stories where someone said no at one point and then there was no need or they didn't see a need. And then six months or a year later I'm doing business with them.
MP: 26:11 I love that one. It's
MP: 26:12 just be keep that head clear on the value that you're bringing to them. I remember once at a networking meeting I stood up and I was doing a talk and one lady come up to me and she said she put her hand up and she goes, well aren't you bothering people when you're calling them? So cause I talked about my three by three process and she's wanted you bothering people when you call them so often. And all I said to her was, if you think you're bothering them, they don't pick up the phone and she, she come to me afterwards, she's, Oh my God, I got that. Yeah, I really got that. I'm bringing that, I'm bothering them and that's what I'm going to deliver. That's how the message will be delivered as a bother as opposed to bringing value. So we have to keep ourselves in check to make sure that we got our own focus.
MP: 26:59 We have our questions, we know the process and we always tell everybody, you need to know what stage you are at this in the stage of the sale because all you're really doing all the way through is earning the right to continue and continue the conversation. And some people, they, they go right sort of for the stage shit sale before they've even created desire there. There's a whole series of steps that you need to go through first and gain agreement before you can go to the next one. Don't go to the next one, go to the next one. But some people, they don't even know you and they're trying to sell you. Everybody hates that.
CS: 27:34 Yeah. That's, you know, really speaking to that sales really is a process and often people, it's more misunderstanding of sales that causes the problem versus understanding what you're doing in the end. You've really created a new frame, a new way of thinking about it. Right. It's like if you think you're bothering someone, don't pick up the phone, change your frame, Right?
MP: 27:55 Your bother. Yeah.
CS: 27:55 Yeah. Call with a purpose, right?
MP: 27:59 Yeah.
CS: 28:00 You can say, I say to myself, and not so much anymore because I'm pretty confident when it comes to picking up the phone, but in the old days when I was first starting out, I used to be just as nervous. I used to have all the same things we teach and all the same dialogue in my inner voice and all that. And I remember thinking, I used to switch it around and say, boy, and they're lucky day. I call him today and I could just feel my whole energy change and not in a conceited smarty pants way or anything like that. It was just to have me be at the top of my game when I made those calls.
MP: 28:28 Yeah, no, for sure. And I think for a, for a bookkeeper, for one of our listeners, I mean, you know, every single one of their customers has mouths that they're feeding, right? Whether they're staff or their family, I mean they're a small business entrepreneur does not have a safety net. I mean, so what a bookkeeper is doing is helping and not all owners are open to it, but when, when you find great customers that are open to it, do want to have it, they're creating their own safety nets to create through financial awareness, better business decisions in their business. And so when you're calling them like that's something to put in your head, I'm going to help them create certainty and consistency and legacy in their business that's going to help them feed more families, create more jobs, and make sure their family's taken care of, make sure that their employees are taken care of, whatever the case may be.
MP: 29:16 I mean, if you pop that into your head before you call, whether it's calling to sell, you know, follow up on a prospect of call or whatever the case may be, or you're calling them to have them too. Cause selling isn't just about getting them on as a new client. There's also sales involved in having them do the things that you need them to do in order to fulfill on your services. Right? That is sales. We often forget that, how it's about influencing people and so it doesn't end at having them kit come on as a client. You continue to sell to retain them as a customer, to have them do the things that you need them to do so that they get to the results that you need them to get to. So I love that reframe.
CS: 29:56 Yeah, and that's what we do a lot of is reframing. And when things come up that we, you know, aren't predictable that w the way people think about things, we reframe them. How else could you see that? How else could you see that you would bring value? We spend a lot of time on that as well. And we just found even in the course when people are talking, you hear it in their language. But what about this? What about in while we get rid of that it's yes. And it's that whole yes. And is there should be no butts or however you should be changing your language because the world occurs in language as we know.
MP: 30:27 It does. It does. Well, this is, this has been just wonderful. Let's talk a little bit about, uh, your program when it's happening and how they can access it because I really do think that this would be a great fit for our listeners. And so what, when is the program happening?
CS: 30:45 It is October 2nd to the fourth, second, third and fourth. It's in Toronto at the Adler School, which is eight 90 young street. And that's right. That young and bluer. We specifically chose there because it's right downtown. It's super easy to get to and includes the lunch and snacks. And that's actually, there's, um, depending on when this is, uh, aired, there's a early bird special and it's the 24th of August that might run after that, but we are looking at it as possibly extending it as well and they just have to go to my website and they can register there. Is that Cindy straddling DOTCOM and go under events and then go to October and it's right there.
MP: 31:27 Well, our listeners are all over the world, so I, this is one of those things where I can, I can say you, if you're anywhere in the world and you want to have a lift in your selling and your ability to influence, this is something that you should get on a plane and go and do its three day program. Correct. Ah, yeah. Now, what about for those people that can't travel? Cindy, do you have anything that you can help people along if they are located somewhere and they can't get to Toronto
MP: 31:56 that we're looking at doing webinars at some point in the future. We're not there quite yet, but that's something that we would want to do.
CS: 32:01 Yeah, definitely.
MP: 32:03 Okay, that's great. Well, this is if, uh, if you're listening and selling, yes, we'll have the link to Cindy's website and there's all sorts of resources there that you can get connected. We'll have links that you connect with Cindy and have conversations with her as well, but Cindy, this has been so great. I know every time you're on, I love giving gifts of gold around your skillset to our listeners and on behalf of our listeners, I thank you for the generosity of giving us your time.
CS: 32:34 Oh, and thank you Michael and I look forward to coming back again.
MP: 32:37 Yes, we will definitely have you back. I already can think of a topic I'd love to talk about. Follow up again and go deeper and following up and how much you should follow up and some of the things that come up when you are actually calling and doing this whole sales process. We'll leave that conversation for the next time.
CS: 32:55 Fabulous. I look forward to it.
MP: 32:58 Beautiful. That wraps another episode of The Successful Bookkeeper podcast. To learn more about today's wonderful guests and to get access to all sorts of valuable free business-building resources. You can go to Thesuccessfulbookkeeper.com until next time,
MP: 33:10 goodbye